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Archive for October 2009

Ted Porter (31 Oct 2009) “The Lawless One – Chapter V”

The fifth chapter of Ted Porter play is posted today. Please watch the video at the middle of the article.  Also follow the Part II of the video.  Mr. Porters conclusions about Obama’s believes are based on facts and scripture. Hope you enjoy chapter 5.

Nando

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/oct2009/tedp1031.htm

Ted Porter (31 Oct 2009)
“The Lawless One – Chapter V”


Special thanks to John again for hosting Five Doves and to the kind words for Chapter IV/The Lawless One from in particular Ron Reese and Kevin Heckle.  I am encouraged because of all the signs, as I see the day approaching.  And at the same time I am saddened as I see the apostate church so blind, not because they cannot see, but because they will not see.

 

That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; Ephesians 4:14

A thought as we look for our blessed hope, our Redeemer in the Rapture, remember, as in the times of Noah.

But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Matthew 24:37

Even with Noah, after the rains started to fall, people started dying and drowning all around the ark and the world, it was still over a year before Noah and his family finished their trip and came out of the ark into their promised land.  To be precise, it was a year and 10 days on their calendar which I’d surmise would be equal in our current day to 370 days.

And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. Luke 21:28

Chapter I

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/oct2009/tedp105.htm

Chapter II

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/oct2009/tedp1012.htm

Chapter III

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/oct2009/tedp1019.htm

Chapter IV

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/oct2009/tedp1026.htm

Chapter V

There was a quick knock at the door and a head appeared, looking around.  “We’ve got some extra box lunches, would you like some?”  Chuck answered, “Sure, bring them in.”

The stage hand brought in a cart with around 10 box lunches on them and bottled drinks.   “Thanks,” said Chuck.  “Thanks!” said the rest of them as they each took a box lunch.

While they were eating, Chuck began to speak, “You know I had considered another interpretation as well regarding the covenant with many.  I guess it is obvious that there came be a multitude of wrong interpretations.  But, like the parables which have a surface interpretation and then a deeper interpretation, like peeling back the layers of an onion, other scriptures can have more than one correct and true interpretation.  Let me read it again.”

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Daniel 9:24

Chuck had a briefcase next to his chair and took out a small loose leaf binder and started flipping through the pages.  “I took various notes as I was preparing the manuscript of “The Lawless One”.  Here we go.  Let’s just take this 30 minute infomercial on October 29, 2008 seen by over 33.3 million people at the time, as being his confirming his willingness to agree with the American people to bring about change and peace.  This agreement had to be also confirmed by the American people.  Guess what, this agreement was confirmed by the American people exactly at the end of the one week when just over 66.6 million people voted for him for President, not counting dead people in Chicago.”

At this, Chuck looked up at his audience.  He watched as one by one they went from having furrowed brow expressions of not understanding, to smirky smiles of understanding.  His attempt at levity wasn’t entirely in vain.  He continued.  “Starting the week count on October 29, 2008, the seventh day would end on November 4, 2008, Election day.  Let’s count the days, 29th, 1, 30th, 2, 31st, 3, 1st, 4, 2nd, 5, 3rd, 6, 4th, 7.  We have seven days.  We have ONE WEEK.”

Virginia spoke up, “But what about causing the sacrifice and oblations to cease in the midst of the week?”

Chuck said, “Glad you asked.  I’ll ask you a question.  Remember how the 49th week as prophetic years from Jerusalem Unification Day ends exactly on the most holy day on the Hebrew calendar, Yom Kippur?  What would be on the other end of the spectrum the most unholy day of the year?  In fact, a most unholy day where yearly animal and even human sacrifices still take place today?”

Stuart ventured, “There’s news reports that this happens every Halloween.  We have cases even in our own small community where pets, especially cats, disappear around this time.”

“Yes,” said Chuck.  “The one day when sacrifices are conducted and universally recognized by satanic cults, luciferian societies, druids, goths, gaea mother earth worshipers, wiccan’s, and people who just want to imitate one of these, is Halloween.  And guess what, it fell in the midst of the week between October 29th, 2008 and November 4th, 2008.  Halloween!

Everyone sat around the table saying nothing, apparently deep in their own little world, thinking about what Chuck had just shared.

After what seemed like several minutes, Obadiah interjected, “But how’d he get there in the first place?  You just don’t go from nothing to President of the United States without some very powerful people behind you.”

Chuck answered, “The most powerful people in the world!”

“Who are they?” questioned Dave.

“Well,” started Chuck again.  “You would never know who they were unless they wanted you to know.  They like it better that way.  They control events from behind the scenes while we are left trying to figure out what is going on.  For as the good book says.”  Chuck raised his right hand with his index finger pointing up.  He then closed his eyes and brought his left hand across his chest, and began quoting:

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

Chuck opened his eyes and returned his arms to rest on the card table.  “Fortunately, I suppose,” said Chuck, “They want you to know who they are.  Although what difference it makes besides possibly to stroke their already large egos, I don’t know.”

Chuck had gotten the attention of everyone in the room so he continued.

“You see,” started Chuck again, “It appears that behind the scenes, this world has been broken up not really by geographical areas but more economic and political areas.  Politics and economics go hand in hand.  And there appears to be ten regents who have been set up over all these areas of the world.  Three of those regents have put their unimaginable resources behind this, pardon the pun, barack sheep.”

Chuck paused.

The five who had been looking and listening to Chuck started looking at each other instead.  Was there a clue on anyone else’s face that one of them already knew what Chuck was telling them?  Finding none, finally Obadiah was the first to speak.

“Well, who are they?”

Chuck said, “Don’t you want to know the Biblical basis for everything I’ve just told you first?  Sometimes it seems we all want to jump right to the punch line.  We want to eat our dessert first.  I’ll get to who they are, but first you have to, in a way, eat your meat and vegetables.  Most people realize the most powerful man in the free world did not get there by his own power.  But most people don’t realize that the Bible predicts that as well.”  Chuck again turned the pages in his well-worn Bible:

And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. Daniel 8:24

Chuck continued, “And the three that gave him his power when he came up.”

And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. Daniel 7:20

“There’s that reference to his stern look that he seems to wear on his face so much.  I like the turn of the phrase, “whose look was more stout”.  Of course we also have Daniel 8:23 and its “fierce countenance” reference:”

And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. Daniel 8:23

“Okay, we get it,” said Virginia.  “Who are they?”

Chuck again spoke, “Instead of just taking my word for it, Dave, you’ve got your computer hooked up to the internet?”  Dave replied, “Sure do.”  Dave had been ignoring his computer which had been plugged into an outlet but pushed aside as they had listened to Chuck and had eaten.  Dave brought it over in front of him and said, “I’m ready.”

“Chuck said, “Okay, Dave.  Type in this address:

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2009/abigail18-2.htm

Dave brought up the address and they all read.  It had a link to a video so when everyone indicated they were done reading, Dave clicked on that as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MouUJNG8f2k&feature=related

Everybody watched.  They had known the name of the head of the beast, now they knew the names of part of the body that had given power to the head:

David Rockefeller

George Soros

Zbigniew Brzezinski

“Well, that was a letdown,” said Evelyn.

“I can’t say I learned much either,” said Stuart.

Dave said, “I must say I haven’t really followed David Rockefeller.  However, George Soros was pretty visible in the campaign.  He’s made billions trying to wreck various countries currencies.  I hear that if he tries to set foot in some, such as Taiwan, he would be arrested on sight.”

“Sounds like a financial Roman Polanski,” ventured Virginia.

Chuck, Stuart and Dave chuckled.

Dave started typing in his notebook computer.  “I’ve never heard of Zbigniew Brzezinski before though.  How do you spell it?”  Chuck started spelling it out loud.

“Okay,” said Dave, “this is what this guys name numbers look like.”  Dave turned the computer so everyone could see.

A=1, Z=800 a=6 B=12 a=1 B=2 a=1 B=3 a=1 B=4
Text Zbigniew Brzezinski Zbigniew Brzezinski Zbigniew Brzezinski Zbigniew Brzezinski Zbigniew Brzezinski
Gematria 3267 1404 234 450 666
Min to Hours 54.45 23.4 3.9 7.5 11.1
Min Time 6:27 23:24 3:54 7:30 11:06
Clockwise Degrees 27 324 234 90 306
Counter Degrees 333 36 126 270 54
Divisors Divisors Divisors Divisors Divisors Divisors
2 1 4 2 2 2
3 27 27 9 9 9
5 1 1 1 25 1
7 1 1 1 1 1
11 121 1 1 1 1
13 1 13 13 1 1
37 1 1 1 1 37
Quotient 1 1 1 1 1

Dave continued.  “I find it sort of interesting with the 3 cubed and 11 squared and the 333 on the main number count.  And of course the 36, 234, and 666 in the lesser number counts.  But then, these are lesser number counts so I don’t give too much weight to them.  Sorry about that, I was just curious.”

“Nothing wrong with being curious,” said Virginia

“Curiosity killed the cat,” said Stuart

“Only on Halloween,” said Virginia.

“Let’s not get too sidetracked,” said Chuck.  “Let me instead pose a question to you.  What do you think the word “craft” means in the following verse.”  With that, Chuck started reading.

And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand. Daniel 8:25

Virginia was the first to speak, “witchcraft.”

Dave spoke up, “I think it means craftiness.  And the one craft or trade which is the art of craftiness itself is, being a lawyer.  And we all know who is a lawyer, who even taught law, constitutional law, can you believe it.  And we also know that he has spent untold millions, well at least millions funneled through him, on lawyers, mainly to keep his past hidden.”

“Very good,” said Chuck

Obadiah spoke up, “That wasn’t a lawyer who killed the guy who accessed his college records or his romantic partner Donald Young.”

“How do you know?” asked Chuck.  “For doesn’t the good book say that he was a murderer from the beginning?”

“The beginning of what?” asked Evelyn.  “How do you know that isn’t talking about the beginning of life?  How do you know that isn’t talking about womb infanticide?”

“Could be both,” said Chuck.

“Stuart said, “I can just imagine his handlers telling him if he wanted to become president he had to give up cigarettes and Donald Young.”

“Don’t the two go together?” asked Virginia.

“Guess he was a barack widower,” said Stuart.

“Did you get a load of that black widow dress Michelle wore to the inauguration?” asked Virginia.

“Cut it out,” said Dave.

Chuck spoke up, “Yes, let’s get serious.  Don’t underestimate these three men.  Regardless of what we know or don’t know about them, we have the AP hailing this guy in 2004 as the first Kenyan to become a United States Senator.  That has to all be covered up.  Then we have him hailed as the first African American to run for United States President.”

Virginia said, “Wasn’t it AP who was suing some guy for painting a picture they said was based on a photograph that belonged to them?”

“Yes,” said Chuck.  “But continuing, we had to try to bury the stories of his grandma stating she was present at his birth in Kenya.  We have a team of lawyers get sealed all his college and hospital records, anything that could give a hint to his foreign status.  We have to carefully control the image that was given to the American people.  We have to do whatever it takes to discredit and destroy all opposition.”

“Guess they missed World Net Daily,” said Stuart.

Chuck ignored Stuart and kept going.  “We have to float the idea of how “Arnold Swartzenegger” would be the best choice for the Republican presidential candidate.  If only the American people changed that stupid outdated “natural born citizen” constitutional requirement.  We had to then finance and make sure John McCain won the Republican presidential candidacy as he was not born in the United States.  As I’m sure you are aware, he was born in a military hospital to two United States citizens who conferred US citizenship but he was not “naturally” born in the United States.  We then had to with much fanfare have Congress pass a resolution that McCain qualified to be president as a “natural born citizen”.  We had to divert as much attention away from him as possible so even if the subject did come up, people would tend to dismiss it.  We had to control the congress and the courts to make sure it never got past a certain point legally.  Sure, we’ve had setbacks where some guy came back from Mombasa Kenya and tried to sell his birth certificate on ebay.  But we squashed that pretty quick.”

“Not quick enough,” said Dave.  “I’ve seen a scanned image of his hospital birth certificate from Mombasa this guy posted on the internet, complete with footprint.”

Stuart started chuckling.

Chuck said, “Care to share what’s so funny with the rest of us?’

“I was just picturing,” said Stuart, “all these Secret Service guys following him as he walked barefoot on a beach.  There he is in shorts and there they are in black suits with patent leather shoes.  Each one of them is taking turns using their shoes to rub out his footprints in the sand as he walks.”

The rest of them also laughed, except Chuck.

“Sorry,” said Chuck.  “Sometimes I get a little intense and I realize it.  I need to not be so serious all the time.  But you got to realize these people are intense.  They just needed to control the news, control the events, spread the money around, and make sure he didn’t say anything about his past.”

Stuart said, “How’d that work out with him and cocaine?”

Chuck gave Stuart a dirty look.

“Sorry,” said Stuart.

Chuck began again.  “We’re trying to determine the truth here.  Just because someone does something against the law, does not make them “the lawless one”.  Right now, all it does is make him easier to get rid of by his handlers after he’s served their purpose.  None of this illegal stuff will have any traction in the media or in the courts until it is in the best interest of those who control the media and the courts.”

Chuck paused to catch his breath.

“But that isn’t our focus.  For us all here, our interest is in how he fulfills scripture.  Is he the lawless one?  If so, then we are that much closer to meeting our Blessed Redeemer Jesus Christ in the air in the Rapture.  If not, we keep looking.  Now does anyone have anything to add about how he is fulfilling scripture?”

No one said a word.

“So let me get back to my original question.  It’s been so long I better reread the scripture.”

And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand. Daniel 8:25

“Stuart,” said Chuck, “What do you think the word “craft” in this verse is referring to?”

Stuart looked up surprised at his name being mentioned.

“Well,” said Stuart, “We call ourselves “the craft” as a freemason.  But we haven’t especially increased since he was elected president.  Sure, we had a gala ball that he hosted, but that’s about it.  Guess I don’t know.”

“When I don’t know,” said Chuck, “I turn to the Bible and let it interpret itself.  I’ve looked up all instances of verses which contain words which start with “craft”.  Let me read the first verse.”

Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen. Deuteronomy 27:15

“Do you know what he carries hidden in his pants pocket?” asked Chuck.

“Sure”, said Evelyn.  “I’ve seen pictures of them.  They include this metal Madonna and another one with the image of a Hindu monkey god.  They’re some of his good luck charms.”

Chuck said, “Another word instead of “good luck charm” is talisman.  He carries talismans in his pocket.  Let me read some more verses.”

Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.  But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. Daniel 11:37-38

Chuck continued, “We know he had a father, and a stepfather.  So, he indeed had fathers, plural.  Do you know what God his fathers worshiped?”

Obadiah said, “Both of his fathers were Muslim so they would have worshipped allah.”

Chuck continued, “That is correct.  And that tells me when looking at this person, that he will not regard allah, the God of the Muslim.  Instead he will regard a god of forces.  You may have not realized that he specifically mentioned the Hindu in his inauguration address.  And you may have also not known that he had talked about the Hindu lord rama and is the first US president to celebrate the Hindu “festival of lights” in the White House.  If you research Hinduism you will find that it is different that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, in that it does not worship a personal God.  In fact it does not believe in a personal God.  It believes in an impersonal god, a god of forces.

Everyone looked at each other with sober expressions on their faces.  They had learned a lot in a short time.

Chuck said, “I’d like to read just a little more from the Bible.”

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. II Timothy 2:15

Chuck bent his head forward and closed his eyes.  In a soft voice he began to speak.  “May we rightly divide your word O Lord.”, he prayed.

© 10/31/2009 – Ted Porter

_________________________________________________________________________________________

Written by twelvebooks

October 31, 2009 at 11:18 pm

Jovial (29 Oct 2009) “2 Thess 2:3 and AN IN-DEPTH LOOK AT HOW GREEK SPEAKERS USE THE TERM “APOSTACIA” AND HOW THEY UNDERSTAND THIS VERSE”

The word apostacia is such a key element in understanding when the Rapture is going to take place that the discussion about the true meaning of that word continues. The article by Jovial is good and goes into the search for the common use of this word by the Greeks.  Enjoy the article. My opinion at this moment is with the interpretation of Jovial in the meaning of apostacia.

Nando

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/oct2009/jovial1029-2.htm

Jovial (29 Oct 2009)
2 Thess 2:3 and AN IN-DEPTH LOOK AT HOW GREEK SPEAKERS USE THE TERM “APOSTACIA” AND HOW THEY UNDERSTAND THIS VERSE

Written by twelvebooks

October 30, 2009 at 1:57 am

(October 29, 2009) The importance of taking the swine flu vacine

The article posted here explains the severity of this flu and the spreading factor.  The person involved in this article has knowledge of the subject and changed my mind about the vacine. I will take it if available as soon as possible.

Nando

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/oct2009/frankm1029-3.htm

Frank R Molver (29 Oct 2009)
“Doctor’s sad story on flu  and accurate statistics”


This is from my work email, it is from an associate with our hospital.

The email below was written on Oct. 13 by an ED doctor at a Midwestern hospital, who sent it to one of our board members. It was written to one of the doctor’s relatives, who had received an email rumor that said taking Vitamin D is as effective against H1N1 as the vaccine, and that also questioned the safety of the vaccine.

I got forwarded your email about what I thought of the [H1N1] flu vaccine. First, some data so that we’re on the same page:

H1N1 (swine flu) is has a transmission rate of about 30%. What that means is that this virus is incredibly infectious. If you contact someone with swine flu, you have a nearly one in three chance of picking it up from that one contact. Multiple contacts obviously increase that chance. A whole winter in malls and restaurants and offices. . .  Bottom line, you and your family WILL get H1N1 if you do not get vaccinated—unless you move to a cabin far in the woods and have no contact with anyone until next summer. You WILL get this. Period.

The average person who gets H1N1 gets a high fever, headache, cough and feels horrible for about a week. Then they are fine. H1N1 has a mortality rate of about 0.2%. That’s one in 500. Not too bad odds for betting. Fairly low for any one person, but approach it this way:

If there are 500 kids in [your daughter]’s school, one of them is going to die from swine flu this winter. Odds are, she will know this person.

Now the really nasty part.

H1N1, as of last week, has caused 79 deaths in children since April of this year. Nineteen of these deaths were last week. Average for an influenza season is 70 to 80 deaths. So, we are already passing what is normal for a year, and we haven’t even started the winter.

More so, the rate of kids dying seems to be speeding up: 60 from April to September and then 19 in the first week of October. The number now is at least 80. How do I know this? Have a look at the attached photo. [Photo shows a young boy and girl in a pool.]

The girl in the middle of the pool is your niece. The little boy on the right is dead. Influenza caused an encephalitis and ravaged his brain, and he was pronounced dead at 7:20 a.m. today. His father is one of my partners. Yesterday I stood over his lifeless little body in the Pediatric ICU at Minneapolis Children’s Hospital while his mother cried in my arms. Today I will help his father figure out where to bury him.

People these days are afraid of vaccines. Why? Because they haven’t seen the awful things that vaccines prevent. Parents these days have not seen polio, mumps, measles, smallpox, etc. They hear stories of autism and listen to [actress] Jenny McCarthy, and they fear the boogie man they can see; they have completely forgotten about the one that our grandparents eradicated for us.

Never mind that there is absolutely NO accurate information—people are choosing to listen to Jenny McCarthy and not the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. People are choosing to listen to the same source of information that produced the stories about spiders underneath your toilet biting your behind and killing you. People fear documented vaccine complications like Guillain Barre disease, never mind that the risk of this has been documented to be one in 1 million.

The risk of dying from swine flu is one in 500—higher for our children—but we instead try to avoid a one in a million complication risk from the vaccination? Your lifetime risk of death in a car accident is one in 84, yet how many times did you buckle your baby into the car seat to run some pointless and unnecessary errand? Please take the time to open this article and look at the risk chart. Look at what is number five.

The [email containing the internet rumor about Vitamin D] you were forwarded makes claims about the production of the new vaccine that are patently untrue. Please read the CDC’s website on this issue, especially “Will this vaccine be made differently than the seasonal influenza vaccine?” The answer is: “No. This vaccine will be made using the same processes and facilities that are used to make the currently licensed seasonal influenza vaccines.”

There are no easy answers. There is no Vitamin D cure. There is no global conspiracy amongst doctors and big pharma.

My prediction is this: Thousands of children will die unnecessarily this winter because their parents took the word of  scare  tactic emails and their accountant friends who proclaim to know “the truth” about vaccinations.

I apologize for the tone of this email, but it reflects the fact that I am sitting here alone in a cold house because I have sent my family away. I am unwilling to risk bringing home a disease from work that killed my friend’s baby this morning.

When you make your decisions on this, do the research. Do not take the advice of any one source, including me. But please, for the love of God, do not make decisions about the well-being of yourself and your children based on the unsubstantiated, uninformed recommendations of an unsolicited email or a newscaster.

Written by twelvebooks

October 29, 2009 at 11:41 pm

Posted in Health issues

Eliane B (28 Oct 2009) “To Kevin Heckle” reply to the timing of the Rapture

Today a reply to Mr. Heckle’s article was written by Elaine B. It is a very good discussion on the timing of the Rapture and the reveling of the Antichrist.  Both present valid arguments on a difficult subject and they should be proud of their diligence in the study and interpretation of scripture.  We do not have long to find out the exact meaning of the scripture.

Nando

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/oct2009/elianeb1028.htm

Eliane B (28 Oct 2009)
“To Kevin Heckle”


In response to http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/oct2009/kevinh1027-2.htm

Hi, Kevin

I’ll try to explain my views.

Point # 1: Apostasia

I understand “apostasia” as a “separation”, a departure from something. Could be from a doctrine, could be a physical separation. It’s like an abandonment. I could abandon a belief or I could abandon a place. I don’t speak Greek but as a Portuguese speaking person I often see many words that have a certain form when it’s a noun and another slightly different form or derivation when it’s used as a verb. When all these are considered, it many times mean “physical separation” in Scriptures. That’s why I believe it could mean that AC is revealed as such after THE departure. (the word apostasia is preceded by a definite article in that passage).

Point # 2: Day of the Lord

You said that the term “Day of the Lord” used in that passage really means “Day of Christ”. In reality, the original term is “Day of Kurios”. (Strong’s number 2962). The manuscripts don’t say explicitly “Day of Christ” in this passage. The term Kurios (a title meaning Lord, Sir) is adequate for both the Father and the Son. That’s why other passages simply use the term “Lord” for “Kurios”. That’s a more accurate translation.

If we read as “Day of the Lord” and understand it like a period taking place DURING the Tribulation period, that would explain why the Thessalonians were so worried by supposing they were already in the Tribulation period (“at hand”  = “already happening”). Someone had written a letter to them saying that they were already in the Tribulation. Maybe someone had told them that they had missed the Rapture OR that that there would be no rapture at all before the terrible Day of the Lord.  I don’t know what they had heard or read. It was a false letter and it troubled them. So Paul answered (paraphrasing): “Don’t be troubled! Be comforted! The Tribulation hasn’t come yet. First, there will be the apostasia (= the departure). Then, the AC will be revealed. And only after that comes the terrible Day of The Lord (= judgment) during the Tribulation.” In other words, the Tribulation comes after the revealing of the AC.

For me, that understanding seems clear. Paul isn’t detailing here what kind of apostasia (departure) that will be. I’m not adding anything to the word “apostasia”, just translating as “departure”, as some English translations render. In Portuguese, it just uses the term “apostasia” and the reader understands what they want to understand. Let the word speak for itself. But it can be understood just the way it is. No need to add words that aren’t there.

The Day of the Lord takes place during the Tribulation and is much discussed in the Old Testament. That day isn’t talking about the Rapture of the Bride of Christ. We also have a New Testament brief description of the “Day of the Lord” in 2 Peter 3.10. “The day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night in the which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are in it will be burnt up’. This is the only actual New Testament description that we have of the day of the Lord, it is coherent with all Old Testament passages and it also has the original term “Kurios” for the term translated as “Lord”. Nobody understands this day as the day of the Rapture of the Bride. And it’s the same “day” it’s referring to. The “Day of Kurios”. The Day of the Lord.

To make this point more clear, let’s see what verses 5-8 say:

“5  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6  And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth {will let}, until he be taken out of the way.

And THEN shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.”

In the above verses we see that something will be taken out of the way an only THEN (=AFTERWARDS) will the Wicked be revealed. That corroborates the idea of a “departure” of something and afterwards the revealing of the AC. There are no contradictions here.

Point # 3: Comfort

I see no contradiction that the above message is a comfort. Paul was comforting them that the Tribulations hadn’t come yet, that they had not missed the Rapture or that any message from other people (falsely signed as Paul) possibly saying that there would be no Rapture at all was incorrect. Again, what I believe he meant was: “Don’t be troubled! Be comforted! The Tribulation hasn’t come yet. First, there will be the apostasia (= the departure). Then, the AC will be revealed. And only after that comes the Day of The Lord (= judgment) during the Tribulation.”

Point # 4: The sign of the Rapture

I believe there is no “sign” of the Rapture. We have to watch (= be spiritually prepared and not living in unrepentance or deliberate sin) and be ready all the time. I understand the ONLY sign will be the dead in Christ rising first, and maybe this happens only hours or minutes before the Rapture of the Bride takes place. Paul wasn’t giving a “sign” for the Thessalonians to identify the Rapture. In my understanding, Paul was explaining to them that, as the Wicked one hadn’t even appeared in the scene, the Rapture couldn’t have taken place, because that “departure” will take place first.

Point # 5: To whom the book of Revelation was written to

I agree that the book of Revelation was written to Christians, but that book (and others books in the Bible) were also written to people that TODAY aren’t Christians yet (either because they never heard the Gospel or because they are only nominal Christians and were never truly born again) but that will be saved in the future. Many passages in the Bible will be read by THEM after the Rapture of the Bride and will be extremely useful for THEM during the Tribulation. Many will become real Christians at that time and those will be the Tribulation Saints.

For example, many of us have talked with other people about the Rapture and they don’t believe and even mock us. After the Rapture (if I’m considered worthy to escape like Jesus told us to pray for, and I think we should all follow His advice) these people (foolish virgins) will be looking for Bibles and they will probably find not only the book of Revelation but the entire New Testament, including 2 Thessalonians.  They will see the order of events and conclude that that Bible is true. Many will even probably read this very page and line after searching for that subject on search engines. It’s not my intention to discuss the “left behind” theory here, but EVEN if ALL true believers are taken in the Rapture, many people will still BECOME Christians after the Rapture, otherwise there would be no Tribulation Saints. The entire Bible is for them too! We cannot read the Bible and suppose that everything there was written for our own benefit. Some passages will be simply GOLD to future Tribulation Saints and those passages will be important instruction to them, so that they are eternally saved by our Lord Jesus Christ.

If you disagree with me, that’ ok, I could even be wrong. It’s not my intention to keep discussing with anyone till I convince them. I just wanted to explain the reasons for my views.

Many blessings to you,

Eliane

Written by twelvebooks

October 28, 2009 at 5:39 pm

(October 27, 2009) Kevin Heckle’s article on 2nd Thessalonians 2 is the most logical interpretation.

(October 27, 2009) Kevin Heckle’s article on 2nd Thessalonians 2 is the most logical interpretation.

The Great Apostasy

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[a] had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin[b] is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[c] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Let us recap what we have learned in this last year.  Mr Obama the elected president of the USA is the lawless one as proven well beyond anybodies mind by the five doves, J.R. Church, Van Impe and many other Christians dedicated to the study of the Word.

That there was an Apostasy in the most Christian nation in the World is more than evident, when the majority of the Nation disregarded what was proof at the time that Obama was lying when he professed to be a Christian, with his stand on partial birth abortion, and many other signs that indicated to any Bible good Christian the true identity of this man.  If good believers voted for him they were deceived badly by the enemy of Christ, Satan.  In a moral Nation Obama could not have been elected.

Here is the article and the link.

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/oct2009/kevinh1027-2.htm

Kevin Heckle (27 Oct 2009)
Rapture Timing: M. Agee, Elaine B., J. Blackmon, Bruce Warner and Doves: II Thessalonians 2


Rapture Timing: M. Agee, Elaine B., J. Blackmon, Bruce Warner and Doves: II Thessalonians 2

I have carefully read each of your posts regarding this passage of Scripture in II Thessalonians 2:3 and the interpretation of apostasia (Strong’s G646) which interpreted in the KJV as ‘falling away’.  The Holy Spirit specifically inspired this single word apostasia (not a variation) to describe the event which would precede the COMFORT that the ‘day of Christ’ would bring the brethren.  Paul asks (‘we beseech you brethren’) the Church (at Thessalonica) to not be ‘soon shaken in mind’ or ‘troubled’ for the ‘day of Christ’ would come.  The prerequisite to the COMFORT would be the apostasia and the revealing of the ‘man of sin’.  The controversy seems to be around the interpretation of apostasia which only occurs TWO times in the Bible. I’m not talking about a variation or root word, but that specific word apostasia (G646).  It is not a flawed interpretation in the KJV as the ‘falling away’ correctly describes apostasia as a defection downwards from the highest truth which is the Gospel. Elaine B. accurately identified Acts 21:21 as the only other time in the Bible that apostasia is used.  However, it is describing a defection from the Law of Moses, which is the same intention of apostasia in II Thessalonians 2:3 describing a defection from the Gospel.  The implication of the apostasia here, is the defection from the Gospel that allows the ‘man of sin’ to come to power.

If apostasia in II Thessalonians 2 were intended to indicate rapture, why would Paul include the second sign (revealing the antichrist) to the church as it would, as a result of the first sign (rapture), not be here to see the second sign?  In conjecture, why would the first sign (rapture) indicate itself?  It’s like saying, ‘Be not troubled, the first sign of the rapture will be the rapture and the second sign will be the revealing of the antichrist, which you won’t be here to see because you’ll be raptured’.  Do you see how nonsensical that is?

The one New Testament story that most accurately describes a rapture of sorts is in Acts 8:39 where Philip baptizes the Eunuch and is then ‘caught away’ by the Spirit of the Lord as they come out of the water. He disappeared before the Eunuch’s eyes.  The word for rapture here is harpazo (G726) which is a more accurate description AND is the exact word used in 1st Thessalonians 4:17 ‘caught up’ together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Philip was found later in Azotus (G108), which means ‘stronghold’.  When the Lord raptures us away, we will forever be found in His ‘stronghold’.

The Book of Revelation is a letter from Jesus and John to the churches (see chapter 1).  There are many prophecies to the church concerning the identification of the AC, but one in particular is written to instruct ‘he who hath understanding’ found in Revelation 13:18.  Jesus and John give the Church the framework with which to identify the antichrist, ‘count the number of the beast’.  The book of Revelation is a letter to you and me, Christians.  Those who have understanding are being told by Jesus and John to count the number of the beast.   Why would Jesus and John instruct the church in the identification of the antichrist if the church will be absent (raptured) from the earth at his revealing?  Doesn’t the number, including the fulfillment of other prophecies, reveal the AC?  Wouldn’t that revealing be the final signal to get ourselves right as well as warn the lost before the Day of the Lord?

The Pharisees and scribes knew Scripture forwards and backwards, yet couldn’t identify Jesus as the Messiah.  They refused to believe it as He didn’t meet their preconceived notion of the Christ.  Here we are confronted with mounds of Scriptural evidence identifying the AC; yet want something more to prove it.  I too wish to focus on Jesus, following His instructions rightly discerning the signs of the times and heeding His warnings of the Book of Revelation.

I’m curious about your response.  Please post your feedback.

Kindest Regards,

Kevin Heckle

Nando

https://twelvebooks.wordpress.com

Written by twelvebooks

October 27, 2009 at 11:13 pm

(October 22, 2009) Are we at the door of a world economic collapse?

Mrs Mercer has posted an economic article by Gerald Celente that is thought provoking and has a great probability of becoming the future. Follow the link here to the article.  The other article is one that she mentions but posted by B G Ellis. Please follow the links to the articles

Nando

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/oct2009/mercer1022-3.htm

Mercer (22 Oct 2009)
Recession To Worsen ­ Revolution To Follow

http://home.flash.net/~evt/crash.htm

BG Ellis

Massive Global Financial Collapse

by: November 2009!


Urgent Web Bot Update – Saturday October 3,

2009 – Ref: 10/25



Written by twelvebooks

October 22, 2009 at 10:12 pm

Jan Mikael (21 Oct 2009) “the Amazing first verse of the Bible, – a YouTube video!”

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/oct2009/janm1021-1.htm

Jan Mikael (21 Oct 2009)
the Amazing first verse of the Bible, –  a YouTube video!


Hallelujah, Glory, Praise and Love for ever to our Great God ! – jms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV0hUldrYp4

Written by twelvebooks

October 21, 2009 at 7:16 pm

Posted in Bible Code, Gematria