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Archive for February 17th, 2011

Feb 17, 2011 A Good Article About the Church’s Marriage

Good article Mercer

Nando

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/feb2011/mercer217-1.htm

Mercer (17 Feb 2011)
Answer to-“I personally believe that all of the raptured people collectively make up His church—the body of Christ—and are so to speak— His temple” .


John, one more thing about your statement below:

I personally believe that all of the raptured people collectively make up His church—the body of Christ—and are so to speak— His temple.

Since I could not write any better than this I present Dr Thomas Ice

The Marriage Supper of the Lamb – Written by: Dr. Thomas Ice http://www.pre-trib.org

Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.” And it was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. And he said to me, “Write, ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.'” And he said to me, “These are true words of God.”

Revelation 19:7-9

Recently at a prophecy conference I was ask if there was a difference in the Bible between the marriage of the bride (the church) to the Lamb and the marriage supper of the Lamb. I answered that I believe that Scripture indicates that there is a difference in these things and that they are two events that will take place at two different times in history. Let me show you why I think this way.

The Marriage of the Lamb

According to Revelation 19:7, the bride, (which is made up of the corporate and collected members throughout the church age taken to heaven at the rapture), makes herself ready for an impending event. How is the bride or the church made ready? She is made ready by clothing “herself in the fine linen bright and clean,” which is said to be “the righteous acts of the saints.” This statement means that by this point in history (right before the second coming), the sum total of the bride, the body of Christ, is in heaven and has already gone through the bema judgment where church age believers are to be evaluated for their faithfulness to Christ during this present age (Rom. 14:10; 2 Cor. 5:10). The result of going through the judgment seat of Christ results in the bride being given fine linen that Revelation 19:8 says, “is the righteous acts of the saints.” This is how “His bride has made herself ready.” Ready for what? She has made herself ready for the marriage of the Lamb. Thus, within the framework of the symbolism being used in this passage, it means that the marriage (marriage ceremony) takes place right before the second coming.

Later, Revelation 19:14 says, “And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.” Thus, having been newly married to the Lamb, the bride begins her role in history of reigning at the right hand of Christ (Rev. 3:21) by accompanying her new husband in the heavenly accent from heaven on white horses in order to participate in the judgment of Armageddon at the second advent. Arnold Fruchtenbaum further explains as follows:

The wedding announcement will be made (v. 6) and the Bride will finally be made ready (v. 7). The reason the Bride will now be fully ready for the marriage ceremony is because she will have her entire bridal gown on (v. 8). . . . this also show that the marriage ceremony takes place after the Judgment Seat of the Messiah, when the saints are rewarded for their deeds on earth (1 Cor. 3:10-15). . . . This corresponds to the ritual cleansing of the Jewish wedding system. The ones present at the marriage ceremony are the “few,” that is, only those in Heaven at that time.[1]

The Marriage Supper

It is at this point that many Christians today often confuse the marriage of the Lamb with the marriage supper of the Lamb. But they are two separate events that occur at two different times in history. Revelation 19:9 says, “Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” This passage clearly has a forward look anticipating a future time. It cannot refer to anyone in heaven since the church (the bride) is the only redeemed entity in heaven. However, after the second coming when believers from other ages will be resurrected (Dan. 12:2) along with tribulation saints, both mortal and resurrected ones (Rev. 20:4), these will be the invited guest who will be guests at this celebration supper. I believe that the marriage supper will be during the first part of the millennial reign of Christ. Fruchtenbaum says:

Hence, the “many” who are bidden to attend the marriage feast on earth are all the Old Testament saints and the Tribulation saints resurrected after the Second Coming. While the marriage ceremony will take place in Heaven just before the Second Coming, the marriage feast will take place on earth after the Second Coming. In fact, it would seem that the marriage feast is what begins the Millennium or the Messianic Kingdom; the Church’s co-reigning with the Messiah will start with a tremendous marriage feast.[2]

There are some New Testament passages that speak of Christ eating and banqueting in the kingdom are in my opinion references to the celebration related to the marriage supper of the Lamb. What are some of these passages which strongly imply that the celebration of the marriage supper commences in the millennial kingdom? Matthew 8:11 This passage says, “And I say to you, that many shall come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.” Here is a picture of the redeemed of the ages (from Adam to John the Baptist) sitting down with Christ in the kingdom and enjoying a meal together. These are likely the invited guest that we see spoken of in Revelation 19:9, since they are redeemed human beings from the ages who are not part of the church, the Bride of Christ. In this way there will be guests at the marriage supper of the Lamb who will be able to celebrate the marriage of the second person of the Trinity to His bride-the church.

Luke 13:28-29

The statements made by Jesus in this passage have some parallels to the things He said in Matthew 8:11, but there are also some differences. It says, “There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth there when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being cast out. And they will come from east and west, and from north and south, and will recline at the table in the kingdom of God.” This is in the context of Christ rebuking the Jewish leaders of His day who were advocating rejection of the Messiahship of Jesus to the nation. The leaders of Israel at this time thought that they were in league with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the prophets, when in reality they were opposed their message by not recognizing Jesus as their long promised Messiah. Therefore, others will come from the four-corners of the world and experience the fellowship of the kingdom. This dining with the Messiah will likely commence with the celebration that will take place at the marriage supper of the Lamb. Like in Matthew 8:11, these others are the invited guests mentioned in Revelation 19:9.

Luke 22:16-18, 29-30

This is an important passage in relation to the marriage supper of the Lamb. We read in Luke 22:16-18 the following: “for I say to you, I shall never again eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God. And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He said, “Take this and share it among yourselves; for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now on until the kingdom of God comes.” This is called the Lord’s Supper, which Jesus inaugurated for the soon to be born church to practice until His return to get His bride. Christ’s promise not to not eat or drink again until He does it when the kingdom comes, means that He will not be celebrating His marriage supper in heaven before He descends at His second coming with His bride. Here He says the next time he eats and drinks will be at the coming of the kingdom, which will start at the beginning of the thousand years of His reign upon earth.

The above stated idea is reinforced at the end of the Luke 22 passage when Christ says the following in verses 29 and 30: “and just as My Father has granted Me a kingdom, I grant you that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and you will sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” Once again, Jesus speaks of eating and drinking during the kingdom. This is the time when we will commence personal fellowship with our Saviour. Thus, it follows that this will be the time when the marriage supper of the Lamb, celebrating with the various redeemed of the ages Christ’s taking of a bride.

When the two parts of Luke 22 are combined it supports the notion that the marriage supper of the Lamb, mentioned specifically in Revelation 19:9 will take place during the millennial kingdom time frame. Matthew 26:29 is a parallel passage to Luke 22 and says, “But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.”

Parable of The Wedding Feast

Matthew 22:1-14 does not teach about a supper or feast in the kingdom, but this parable does picture a wedding feast (verse 4) similar to what most likely will take place at the beginning of the millennial kingdom when the Father’s Son celebrates the marriage supper of the Lamb. Thomas Figart explains the purpose how this parable pictures the marriage supper of the Lamb when he says:

At first glance it may seem inappropriate to refer to the “kingdom of heaven” as a marriage feast for the son (Christ) of the king (the Father) since the Church had not even begun. Indeed, how could Christ be presented to Israel in this royal fashion before His death? But when the parable is take as a whole, it can be seen as including the rejection of the Son, the destruction of Jerusalem and the judgment of unbelievers at the return of Christ to the earth. . . . The fact is the Jews had already rejected Him by the time this parable was given, and it is His way of showing some of the events which pertain to the succeeding years, even up to and including His return to earth.[3]

Thus, this parable is a picture of the wedding feast or supper that will take place in the kingdom, but many of those who thought they would be there (non-elect Israel) will be absent. Likewise, many who were thought to have not even been invited will show up as legitimate guests at this important event in history. This is why it says in Revelation 19:9, “Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.”

Conclusion Though the marriage of the Lamb to His bride (the church) and the marriage supper of the Lamb are closely related, they are separate events, just as the wedding ceremony and the wedding reception of our day are separate events. In fact, these two events are often held at two different locations, just as the marriage of the Lamb will be in heaven right before the second coming (Rev. 19), while the marriage supper of the Lamb will commence with the beginning of the millennium. Perhaps some are confused and fail to make these distinctions because the word marriage is used to refer to both events. By comparing Scripture with Scripture and distinguishing the things that differ, it appears clear that they are two separate events. The most important thing for anyone to consider is whether they will be invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb. I hear there are going to be some interesting guests there. Make sure you are one of them by trusting Christ’s gift of salvation through simple faith in Him and His gracious work on the cross that paid for the sins of all those who believer. Maranatha! (Added 8/31/06) Endnotes

[1] Arnold Fruchtenbaum, The Footsteps of the Messiah: A Study of the Sequence of Prophetic Events, Revised Edition (Tustin, CA: Ariel Ministries, 2003), p. 597.

[2] Fruchtenbaum,. Footsteps, p. 597.

[3] Thomas O. Figart, The King of The Kingdom of Heaven: A Verse by Verse Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Lancaster, PA: Eden Press, 1999), p. 402.

Written by twelvebooks

February 17, 2011 at 12:54 pm

Feb 17, 2010 The Church is Raptured Before or During the Tribulation?

Mercer I agree with your analysis of the Church represented by the 24 Elders seen in Revelation 1 to 4.

Nando

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/feb2011/mercer217-2.htm

Mercer (17 Feb 2011)
“John B (16 Feb 2011) -I will answer each of your questions.”


Hello John B,

I always knew someone would respond close to the way you did. And having this dialog and searching the scriptures will be a joy for us. I am not a gifted writer but will aim to do my best.

John B (16 Feb 2011)
RE: Mercer—The fifth seal–Raptured showing up in heaven


Mercer,
#1.
I respectfully disagree with your conclusion concerning the fifth seal. You say that the untold millions of people from all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues that are standing before the throne and before the Lamb in white robes in Rev.7:9-17—-are not the raptured Church but those killed by the Antichrist.
Answer  #1
Yes, John, they are the slain of the tribulation. Compare them to the Elders (discussed further on)
Elders: Rev.:4:4-Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads.
Tribulation Saints: Notice the sequence !!

1 I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” 2 I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on  1 conquest. 3 When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come!” 4 Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to 2 make people kill each other(WAR). To him was given a large sword.

5 When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. 6 Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “3. two pounds[a] of wheat for a day’s wages,[b] and six pounds[c] of barley for a day’s wages,[d] and do not damage the oil and the wine!”(FAMINE DUE TO WAR)

7 When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” 8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to 4. kill by sword(PROBABLE BEHEADING), famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

Do you see here, after war, killing by the sword, and famine many die? Those that maintained “the testimony” got white robes. No Crowns.

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain(Have all the raptured believers been slain?) because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,[e] were killed just as they had been. (THIS IS NOT AN ACCURATE DESCRIPTION OF ALL BELIEVERS. Please Note these saints are not given crowns.

ONLY the Bride of Christ are given crowns.

By Jack Kelly

Explaining Our Crowns

Q. I was wondering about the crowns that we can earn. Why do we want to get them? How can we get them? When will we give them to God?  Will everyone have them or will some have none?

A. After we’re saved, we have the opportunity to win rewards, or crowns, which will be presented to us immediately after the Rapture. (1 Cor. 4:5) Jesus Himself will make the presentation in what will be the biggest awards ceremony ever in the history of mankind.

This awards ceremony is sometimes called the Bema Seat judgment, after the Greek word for judgment, because of the similarity. In the ancient Olympics, judges awarded ivy crowns (called stephanos) to the winners of the various events at the “Bema Seat”, or judges stand, just like they award medals in our time.

The New Testament lists five categories in which crowns will be awarded to qualified believers.

These crowns are identified as the Everlasting Crown (Victory) in 1 Cor 9:25, the Crown of the Soul Winner in Phil 4:1 and 1 Thes 2:19, the Crown of Righteousness in 2 Tim 4:8, the Crown of Life in James 1:12 and Rev 2:10, and the Crown of Glory in 1 Peter 5:4. You can read more on how we get them and why by reading “How To Win Your Crowns.

According to Rev. 4:10-11 we lay our crowns before the throne.  Since the Rapture takes place in Rev. 4 and the Bema Seat judgment follows immediately, we apparently do this right after receiving them. 1 Cor 3:10-15 implies that not everyone will receive crowns since it’s not just what we do but our motives for doing it that are judged.  The only acceptable motive is pure gratitude for what we’ve been given.  Any thought of self promotion will disqualify us.

John asks Mercer::

Are you one of the crowd that believes that the rapture happens before any of the seals are opened in Rev.5

I have poured over the Book of revelation for 3 years now. I have listened and read every position there is. And once “you see it-YOU SEE IT” I saw it so clearly without anyone telling me what to think or what I was reading. THE BIBLE INTERPRETS ITSELF.

Let me see If I can show you.

Rev 1:10

10I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

12And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

So we have Jesus in the midst of the Candlesticks. What are the candlesticks?

Jesus tells John what they are.

Rev 1: 19Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

20The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Where are the 7 candlesticks after John see the door open and hears “come up here?

Revelation 4

1After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter

After what? After the 7 churches with Laodician being the last. We are that church!! So where are the candlestands/church once the church reaches a “Laodician” state?

You’ll clearly see.

2And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

3And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

4And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

5And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

By golly…….there’s the Church

Elders…..thrones……white gowns……crowns………7 candlestands

6And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.

7And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.

8And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, LORD God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

9And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,

10The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

11Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Rev 4:4 And 2532 round about 2943 the throne 2362 [were] four 5064 and 2532 twenty 1501 seats 2362: and 2532 upon 1909 the seats 2362 I saw 1492 four 5064 and 2532 twenty 1501 elders 4245 sitting 2521 , clothed 4016 in 1722 white 3022 raiment 2440; and 2532 they had 2192 on 1909 their 846 heads 2776 crowns 4735 of gold 5552.

Cite This Page:

Blue Letter Bible. “Dictionary and Word Search for presbyteros (Strong’s 4245)“. Blue Letter Bible. 1996-2011. 16 Feb 2011. < http:// www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?
Strongs=G4245&t=KJV >

9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Look who welcomes the tribulation saints !

11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. They died/sacrificed themselves therefore the blood on robes.

15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

16They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.The memory of their suffering is taken away and of those who where left behind.

Well John, I hope you are very excited to see you go through no part of the tribulation. Your heart should be singing praise to Jesus- for he shall be rescueing you very soonAnd hopefully shows others we are not in the tribulation and no seals have been broken yet. Oh, we are close.

YSIC

Mercer

Nando

Written by twelvebooks

February 17, 2011 at 12:31 pm

Posted in Rapture, Religious Commentary

Tagged with

Feb 17, 2011 Rapture Message from Dr. Owuor

There is a man called Dr. David Owuor born in Kenya that was called by Jesus to prophecy about many things He let him know. I admit that in the past I have heard his messages and have been skeptical about the veracity of what he has said and the claim that the Lord spoke to him.

Today Mr. Jim Bramlet and Dru posted articles linking to this man and I took the time to follow the links and listened to what was transmitted. Jim posted a link to Dr. Owuor ‘s site and I went and read his biography.

The Dr. Owuor background is quite impressive. He has attained several degrees up to and including a PHD in Biology from Universities in Israel and the USA. The call and the man seem authentic and his background could be verified from the data he gave.

His message is one of repentance and exhortation to faith in Jesus and to the coming Rapture of the church. I for one will try to post all the articles pertaining to this man’s message from now on.

Nando

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/feb2011/jim217.htm

Jim Bramlett (17 Feb 2011)
Prophecy: “The Lord says, ‘Time is over'”


Insights

The newsletter of Jim Bramlett
 

Prophecy: “The Lord says, ‘Time is over'”

2.16.11

 

Dear friends:

Many believe Dr. David Owuor of Kenya is a true prophet of God.  I have not fully studied his life and sayings but what I have seen is intriguing and should command our attention.

He says with great and impassioned urgency, “The Lord has  spoken to me, ”Time is over. At any moment He will take the church.  Those who are wise, let them prepare.'”

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfrV9IV4cS4 (4.01 minutes)
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k42wCJfRHao (3.40 minutes)

Some background: http://majimbokenya.com/home/2009/04/11/life-and-times-of-kenyan-born-world-renown-prophet-dr-david-owuor/

One blogger wrote: The accuracy of Dr Owuor is second to none.  I’ve never seen, watched, or heard anyone – anywhere or at any time – peg these natural disasters as well as Doctor Owuor. and I wont even get into the mass healings and calling rain down from a blue sky. Truly a prophet of God.  He accurately predicted HAITI quake, CHILE Quake, Katrina, Samoa Tsunami and Quake, a quake in Malawi, and he made it rain from the sky on command in 2005.
See http://tenwaiting4jesus.podbean.com/2010/07/31/how-accurate-is-the-prophet-dr-owuor-just-listen-to-what-this-person-said/

Another blogger wrote: “Right now I want to give you the gist of the message that God has been transmitting through Dr. Owuor.  It is a two-fold message.  The first part states that God the Father has shown him, by specific visions under the open night sky, that the Lord Jesus Christ, Yeshua the Messiah, is about to return.  The second part calls the congregation, the nation, and the world to repent of their sins and transgressions, as there is a very small window of time before the Lord returns to judge unrepentant sinners … and (this is the exciting part) to celebrate the greatest wedding feast in the history of the earth, the most important upcoming event on the Father’s calendar, the marriage of the Lamb of God.”

Jim
___________________________________________________

(Thanks for the heads up from Dru of the Five Doves site.)

If you would like to subscribe to this free newsletter, please send a blank message from your address to join-insights@injesus.netatlantic.com, put “Subscribe” in the subject line, and you will be subscribed automatically.  The archives can be found at insights.injesus.com

Jim’s main Web site is at www.choicesforliving.com .  His two latest books are available free online on the main page.

__________________________________________________________________

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/feb2011/dru217-1.htm

Dru (17 Feb 2011)
Prophet Dr Owuor 02-14-2011 (((PT 3)))


(((More Update on the IMMINENT RAPTURE)))

http://www.rapturewatch.net/apps/videos/videos/show/12640722-prophet-dr-owuor-more-update-on-the-imminent-rapture-02-14-2011-pt-3-

I posted part 1 and 2 two days ago, so here is part 3 …

~Dru

Written by twelvebooks

February 17, 2011 at 12:03 pm