Nov 2, 2014 Thanks to Jovial and pastor Bob for their con and pro articles on All Roads Lead to Rome
Thanks to Jovial and pastor Bob for their con and pro articles on All Roads Lead to Rome
In this rebuttal to pastor Bob, Jovial breaks down one after the other facts posted by pastor Bob in his series all roads lead to Rome.
The two persons that are involved in this polemic are both Christians in my opinion and have voiced there opinions in very well written and articulated articles.
Verifying the claims by either is difficult unless you are highly skilled in a lot of subjects that bear into this discussion.
Jovial’s point about disinformation passed on by the true manipulators of the system is very valid and brings us to the fact that most of the info on the Pastor’s series is definitively not readily available to research.
In my opinion it is difficult to believe the main points presented by pastor Bob about the USA and the Vatican and Jovial’s reasoning is sound.
We must understand also how the things mentioned here bear on the end time’s scriptures of the book of Revelation. Chapter 13 mentions a beast coming out of the sea which is the system of the world controlled by Satan that gives its authority to the Antichrist. In chapter 17 of Rev. we see a prostitute woman sitting on a beast.
All these symbols are difficult to interpret and understand but both the beast and the prostitute are working their way to the crescendo that is shown in Revelation.
So without going into much deep thinking, if you are Satan who is the nation you choose that gets the role of the Rev 13 beast? Who commands all the most advance military system in the world? Who controls the financial empire of money (the dollar to put it simple)? Who has the most advanced and powerful military industrial complex with advance scientific knowledge through a university system where all nations send their students to learn?
Then who can be the second beast of Rev 13, and the harlot of Rev 17? It seems to imply a false religious system that is presently in the world. There could only be two possible candidates, the shell of false Christianity left after the Rapture and the Islamic world. Take your pick and you will be right regardless as both will be under Satan then.
My thanks go to Jovial and pastor Bob for the intention of educating the body of Christ in such a critical and profound matter as they see with their different perspectives and arguments.
I am sorry to hear that pastor Bob will not be posting or using the internet any more. Pastor Bob if there is anything that you know that should concern the rest of the doves or Christians all over the world please let us know. The obvious is that there is government snooping by the NSA and the rest of the world spy agencies, but these are the end times and such is expected.
Jovial (2 Nov 2014)
“Why All Roads do NOT lead to Rome ”
At http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/oct2014/pastorbob1026-1.htm , “Pastor Bob” made a number of wild claims about how the Vatican or foreign countries or both are secretly in charge of the US Government. Of course, those two wild claims conflict with each other because if foreign creditors are secretly in charge, how could the Vatican be secretly in charge? It can’t be both. It has to be one or the other. Because many of the allegations are about what happens in secret, one could never prove or disprove them. But perhaps we can judge whether the sources really did their homework by the alleged facts that CAN be looked up.
One false claim made was “Jame (sic) Traifcant (sic) noted that the “figurehead” Secretary of the Treasury works for the IMF, and is not compensated.” and elsewhere he described the Secretary of the Treasury as “unpaid”. This is false. This was offered as evidence that the Dept of Treasury doesn’t really exist and/or is controlled by foreign agents. At http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/About-Treasury/Pages/officials.aspx it explains that the Secretary of the Treasury is paid $199,700 per year by the Federal Government. It lists the oath of office that the Sec of Treasury has to take, probably a response to internet fear mongering that he doesn’t take an oath. Not only does the Sec of Treasury take an oath, almost EVERY FEDERAL EMPLOYEE takes an oath. I worked for the Federal Courts as a Systems Administrator at one point in my life and I had to take an oath of office. Pastor Bob said, “No record can be found of any such administering the “Oath of Office” to Secretaries of the Treasury over the past twenty years. None whatsoever!”, yet the oath is listed right there on the internet for everyone to read!!!! At http://www.propublica.org/article/will-geithner-clear-up-the-tarp-muddle-090127 you can see a picture of Timothy Geithner taking the oath of office as Secretary of the Treasury in 2009!!!! Yet Pastor Bob tells us “No record can be found” of it. Try Google. You’ll find it fast, Bob.
http://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/memdir/members.aspx describes the membership of the IMF. Most countries appoint their respective ministers of finance to the governing board, and the USA is no exception. The USA has a voice just like other nations have a voice and the USA appoints the same role specific federal officer that most nations appoint. There is nothing unusual about the USA’s position or appointment. The IMF is a democratically run body made up of individual nations, each of which vote on policy. The USA is under no obligation to follow its orders the same as it is under no obligation to follow United Nations orders. In fact, the USA has the power to VETO ANYTHING ALL OTHER NATIONS on the IMF desire to do. The IMF operates with 204B SDRs as of Sept 4 , 2014 (see http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/facts/sdr.htm for proof) and the USA possesses 42B of those. Again, see http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/facts/quotas.htm since I do not make up wild claims. That means the USA has 20.6% of the vote on the IMF. The IMF requires a voting block of 85% agreement to do anything. They don’t desire to engage in controversial actions and want to avoid controversy. So the USA has enough voting power to deny the will of EVERY OTHER NATION ON THE PLANET!!!! Yet Pastor Bob tried to tell you the Sec of the Treasury is a mere puppet of this organization, bound to do whatever it tells him! Things could not be farther from the truth. If the USA has enough voting power to tell the rest of the world what to do by blocking any decision it does not like, the question is really whether the IMF is the puppet of the USA.
The Sec of Treasury IS INDEED paid by the USA for doing his job as Secretary. He is NOT paid for being on the IMF. That keeps his financial allegiance to the USA, not the IMF.
It was alleged “Federal Law 22 USC 286a(a) requires the President to appoint the US Governor of the IMF. This appointment is given to the Secretary of the Treasury. ” Well…again….someone did not understand what they read. Fed Law 22 USC286(a) can be found at http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/22/286a, and it requires the President to appoint SEVERAL people to the IMF, not just one person. Those positions are;
• Person 1: “a governor of the Fund who shall also serve as a governor of the Bank”
• Person 2: “an executive director of the Fund and an executive director of the Bank”
• Person 3: “an alternate for the governor of the Fund”
• Person 4: “an alternate for the governor of the Bank”
There’s no requirement that the Sec of Treasury be one of these people. He cannot be all 4 people. It also says, “The Secretary of the Treasury shall instruct the United States executive director of the Fund to present to the Fund’s Executive Board a comprehensive set of proposals…”, so he cannot be person 2. Pastor Bob alleged “The Secretary of the Treasury is to abstain from from advising them in the discharge of their duties.”, but that statement of course contradicts the law I just quoted in the last sentence. WOW!!!! It is amazing how someone can claim that the law is 100% opposite of what it actually says!!!!!
And of course, the above info about 4 people being appointed was left out because it would have undone the logic behind why the Sec of the Treasury is a mere puppet of the IMF. When you read the whole thing, it because obvious why he cannot be.
It was also alleged that the Sec of Treasury serves on Interpol – the International Police organization. That is a rather wild statement. Why would a financial officer server on interpol? The Department of Justice would seem to appoint that member. I tried to fact check that wild claim, and all I could find was an article that a former UNDER-secretary of the Treasury was recently appointed head of Interpol. That does not mean that the top Sec of Treasury is an ex-officio member of interpol and I suspect that wild allegation came indirectly from someone misunderstanding that news story or something like that.
It was also alleged that the Treasury Department issues Social Security numbers! Well, anyone who has ever applied for one knows you send the application to the Department of Social Security, and you get it back from them. Why would anyone believe the Treasury Dept is in the loop at all? Apparently the level of absurdity to an accusation plays no role in whether it is put out there.
Pastor Bob also said, “Title 12, United States Code, Section 95(b) gives the Secretary of the Treasury complete power over you. ” No it does not. You can find Title 12 at http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/12 and read it for yourself. It does nothing of the sort. Here’s what 95(b) says,
“The actions, regulations, rules, licenses, orders and proclamations heretofore or hereafter taken, promulgated, made, or issued by the President of the United States or the Secretary of the Treasury since March 4, 1933, pursuant to the authority conferred by section 95a of this title, are approved and confirmed.”
This is merely saying that the actions taken in respect to foreign exchange rates (which is what 95a covers) before the law were passed are recognized as valid even though they were no regulations about foreign exchange rates (again, the topic of 95a) when it was passed. That is all it is saying. Before reading something on the internet and passing it on as fact, it would be beneficial to actually READ the laws being cited rather than simply cite the same law someone else cited who did not understand what he was reading. Check the facts you hear before passing them on. We should not pass on rumors or wild unsubstantiated allegations. And just because someone cites a law does not mean they correctly understood the law they read. READ THE LAW BEFORE QUOTING IT AND CLAIMING TO KNOW WHAT IT SAYS!!!!!
So if all this information that was alleged at http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/oct2014/pastorbob1026-1.htm about what happens in public is wrong, how much credibility is there to all the other accusations about what happens behind the scenes that no one can prove or disprove? Probably not much. And there were SO MANY errors in that post – just one after another after another – that I probably have not addressed them all. But I have addressed several that are easy to look up the validity of via simply means – like Google – and that should have been looked up before passing the info along.
Pastor Bob was not the source of this info. He was simply passing on what he has read elsewhere, something he often does whether he credits the source or not. However, we should be more careful to check into facts before we pass them along. My guess is that the I11umati may be behind these false rumors. Why? Stop and think about it…..
If you think the Vatican is secretly in charge of the US Government, then you are not suspicious of the people who truly are secretly in charge. And if you research the accusations, you will quickly find that most of them can be easily proven wrong. By throwing easy to disprove accusations on the internet, it becomes easier to discredit ALL conspiracy theories (including those that are true) if 95% of the conspiracy theories out there are wrong. So if you are part of a secret conspiracy, the best way to hide that is not to deny truthful allegations, but to publish false allegations of other conspiracies that are easy to disprove, and thereby destroying the credibility of accurate theories.
That is why we should avoid passing on theories without checking into the facts. Not only do we destroy the credibility of legitimate theories when we do, but we destroy our own credibility as someone who does not check facts.
So my guess is that Pastor Bob was passing on false allegations invented by the I11uminati to misinform us and discredit stories that they are secretly in charge.