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Archive for July 2011

Six volcanic plumes between southern California and Nevada.

Nando

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/july2011/gerlinda730-1.htm

Gerlinda (30 July 2011)
“Six more Volcanic Plumes for Souther Ca/Nevada”


Six more Volcanic Plumes for Southern Ca./Nevada.  Very serious forming here.

http://members.beforeitsnews.com/story/878/116/NL/6_More_Volcanic_Plumes_in_SoCal_Nevada.html

 

Nando

Written by twelvebooks

July 30, 2011 at 2:10 pm

Posted in Volcano

Tagged with

Steven Edel (29 July 2011) “The US in Bible Prophesy …”

This is an excellent article that has compiled the major references to the nation of the USA. No other nation fits the careful description given by several of the prophecies in the bible where this nation is implied.

Thank you Steven,

In Jesus Holy name

Nando

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/july2011/stevene729.htm

Steven Edel (29 July 2011)
The US in Bible Prophesy …


The United StatesinBible Prophecy

 

Most Bible prophecy teachers teach that the United States is not in Bible prophecy.

I disagree.

I believe the United States is mentioned specifically, scores of times, and is described in great detail. Before you tell me that I am wrong, first tell me who this nation could possibly be … other than the U.S.!

 

The words “United States” or “America” are not in scripture. But often buried within scriptural text is a parallel subject revelation or dual fulfillment.

Obvious examples of this double reference are in Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28

In Isaiah 14:4, the text begins with references to the “king of Babylon,” but gradually changes into comments about Satan:

“How you have fallen from heaven” Is 14:12.

The same is true with Ezekiel 28 where verse 11 speaks of the “king of Tyre,” but the following verse moves into specific traits and characteristics of Satan: “you were in the garden of God.”

It’s from these two chapters that many of Satan’s characteristics are revealed, yet we had to dig a little before we could uncover the scriptural jewels buried therein.

“It is the glory of God to conceal a matter…” Prov 25:2

If we are living in the final decades, years or days of the Church Age, the United States, still the #1 power in the world, should logically be in the Bible somewhere. Applying the above principle of “Double Reference,” or “Duel Fulfillment,” there are numerous verses in the Bible that may give us some insight into what ultimately happens to the United States in the future.

Below is a list of the characteristics of an end-time, latter-day nation. I’ll challenge you to find another country, other than the United States, that fully fits this description …

Who Is This Nation?

The Bible calls this unnamed nation, “Babylon,” and sometimes refers to it as the “Daughter of Babylon.” These characteristics of Babylon are taken from verses in Jeremiah 50, 51, Isaiah 18, 47 and Revelation 17, 18. These scriptures record a fascinating description of a nation that has much wisdom, wealth and knowledge, thinks it is secure and invincible, but is suddenly totally destroyed.

Bordered By Many Waters

“O you who dwell by many waters,” Jer 51:13

“The sea has come up over Babylon; She has been engulfed with its tumultuous waves.” Jer 51:42

This is a nation who is bordered by “many waters.” Later you will see that it also imports primarily by ships. It is important to note that Babylon in Iraq has two relatively small ports on only one ocean. In comparison, the U.S. is virtually surrounded by water. It has no less than 15 major ports, on three oceans, 5 Great Lakes and the Mississippi River.

Has a Mother Nation

“Your mother will be greatly ashamed, she who gave you birth will be humiliated. Behold, she will be the (youngest) of the nations” Jer 50:12

This nation has a mother nation . . . like the U.S. has a mother nation – Great Britain. And this nation is the youngest of the world’s superpowers at the end of the Church Age.

Militarily Strong

“How the hammer of the whole earth…has been cut off and broken!” Jeremiah 50:23

He says, “You are My war-club, My weapon of war;” Jer 51:20

This nation is the military hammer of the earth.

Large Importing Nation

“Come to her from the farthest border; open up her barns,” Jer 50:26

“And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn over her, because no one buys their cargos any more . . .” Rev 18:11

A Wealthy Nation

“…all who had ships at sea became rich by her wealth” Rev 18:19

“….such great wealth…” Rev 18:17

This nation is agriculturally abundant, wealthy, has world-wide influence and is a large importing nation via the sea.

An Educated Nation

“A sword against . . . her wise men!” Jer 50:35

This nation is very educated.

Population Diversity

“A sword against… all the foreigners who are in the midst of her,” Jer 50:37

This nation is full of foreigners, legal and/or illegal. The King James Version calls it a “Mingled-People Nation.”

The U.S. is about as “mingled” as a nation can get.

Abundant in Natural Resources

“… A sword against her treasures . . .” Jer 50:37b

“Abundant in treasures . . .” Jer 51:13

This nation had been blessed by God.

A Nation Full of Idols

“. . . Her images have been put to shame, her idols have been shattered.” Jer 50:2d

“. . . it is the land of graven images, and they are mad upon their idols.” Jeremiah 50:38

The nation in question has a lot of “images.”

How would Isaiah describe TV, movies, or the Internet 3000 years ago? And, any way you define “idol,” the United States is full of them.

An idol is anything that you put before God. Money, cars, sex, TV, football, pornography, self, etc., would certainly qualify as “idols.” Amazingly, one of the top TV shows in the United States is named American Idol, and we have a national magazine titled “SELF.”

If the shoe fits…

Space Program

“Though Babylon should ascend to the heavens.” Jer 51:53

If that is a reference to this nation taking space shots, it certainly narrows the field of prospective countries that could qualify.

Has Become Arrogant

“. . . For she has become arrogant against the LORD, against the Holy One of Israel.” Jer 50:29

“Behold, I am against you, O arrogant one,” declares the Lord GOD of hosts, for your day has come, the time when I will punish you.” Jer 50:31

This nation “has become arrogant against the Lord,” indicating that at one time the nation was once humble to the Lord. Not just arrogant against God, but specifically arrogant against Jesus Christ, the “Holy One of Israel.”

Maybe the 50 million deaths of innocent babies via abortion, being the pornography distribution center of the world, and taking God out of the classroom had something to do with it.

Daughter of Babylon

“. . . Against you, O daughter of Babylon.” Jer 50:42c

This nation is also referred to as the “daughter” of Babylon. Not the original Babylon, but another country.

Attacked from the North

“a nation has come up against her out of the north;” Jer 50:3

“For the destroyers will come to her from the north,” Jer 51:48

The nation is attacked from the north. Interestingly, Russia (Gog) is aligned with Iran (Persia) in the Ezekiel 38/39 post-Rapture invasion of Israel. If the U.S. did receive a nuclear attack from Russia, it would come to the United States over the North pole, “from the north.” The U.S. could be the “coastlands” (Ezek 39:6) who also get attacked in the Gog invasion.

Rapture Related?

“At the shout, ‘Babylon has been seized!’ the earth is shaken, and an outcry is heard among the nations.” Jer 50:46

This “shout” might be a reference to the Rapture (I Thess 4:16), indicating it is still a future event. The earth will definitely be shaken at the Rapture.

God Allowed Luxury, Culture and Industry

“The fruit you long for has gone from you, and all things that were luxurious and splendid have passed away from you and men will no longer find them.” Rev 18:14

“And the sound of harpists and musicians and flute-players and trumpeters will not be heard in you any longer; and no craftsman of any craft will be found in you any longer; and the sound of a mill will not be heard in you any longer;” Rev 18:22

“Babylon has been a golden cup in the hand of the LORD, intoxicating all the earth. The nations have drunk of her wine;” Jer 51:7

This nation lives in luxury and splendor with many musicians, craftsmen and mills/factories. It is quite an advanced nation, allowed by God Himself.

Worldwide Merchants

“…your merchants were the great men of the earth…” Rev 18:23

This nation reaches the far corners of the earth with her dominating trade.

Happens Without Warning

“Suddenly Babylon has fallen and been broken;” Jeremiah 51:8

“for in one hour such great wealth has been laid waste!” Revelation 18:17

“these things shall come on you suddenly in one day…” Is 47:9

“…destruction about which you do not know will come on you suddenly.” Isaiah 47:11

“Suddenly” could be another reference to the Rapture or possibly a post-Rapture nuclear attack that takes out this nation. The phrase “in one hour” could also be translated “in a moment.” The Greek word used there, “hora” was translated “moment” in two other places in the Bible. So it too could be a reference to the Rapture.

Has Good and Bad

“For thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: “The daughter of Babylon is like a threshing floor at the time it is stamped firm; Yet in a little while the time of harvest will come for her.” Jeremiah 51:33

This nation is compared to a “threshing floor.” It is a nation that for the moment has both good and bad people, but eventually God promises to come get the good (cleansed by Jesus’ blood–at the Rapture).

Lots of Whirring

“Alas, oh land of whirring wings…” Is 18:1

This nation has a lot of “whirring” going on. Airplanes, helicopters, and other engines make a whirring sound.

Sends Diplomats Worldwide

“Which sends envoys by the sea, Even in papyrus vessels on the surface of the waters. Go, swift messengers, to a nation tall and smooth, To a people feared far and wide, A powerful and oppressive nation whose land the rivers divide.” Isaiah 18:2

This end-time nation sends diplomats around the world, is considered “tall and smooth,” is known worldwide and has plenty of water due to many rivers dividing the land.

 

So, for those that insist that Babylon MUST be rebuilt in Iraq to fulfill Bible prophecy, I submit Iraq does not fit the above Scriptures…

  • ·Iraq is not bordered on many waters
  • ·it is not the world’s military hammer
  • ·it is not full of wise men
  • ·it is not a mingled people nation
  • ·it is not the world’s largest importer
  • ·it is not a new/young nation,
  • ·t does not have plenty of water
  • ·and certainly doesn’t take space shots

 

This nation, whoever it is, is wiped out in one hour, either by the Rapture or a nuclear attack soon after the Rapture.

Could this be the United States?

With the Church gone, and nothing but liberal non-believers left, in God’s perfect timing, it sure seems to fit.

 

But in the meantime, may God bless America …

Steven Edel

Palm Harbor, FLA

Nando

Written by twelvebooks

July 29, 2011 at 10:59 am

CF (28 July 2011) “The Number Three and Three Solar Eclipses”

As I stated since last month the Lord Jesus communicated with me that the Apocalypse would start in the month of July in this year.

The following article points to dates in the last day of this month or the first date of the next for significant signs given in the sun. The time of Pentecost and Tu’B’ Av is also coming.

Nando

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/july2011/cf728.htm

CF (28 July 2011)
The Number Three and Three Solar Eclipses


Dear Doves,

Here is a re-cap on the signs in the sky that may be pointing to our soon departure!

The three solar eclipses that fell on Tammuz 29 and Av 1 three years in a row, (2008, 2009, and 2010) seem to be a sign to those who are watching that God has begun to judge the nations and that something HUGE is about to happen. The number three in the Bible is very significant and points to the fulfillment of God’s divine purposes.   

(The dates of the solar eclipses three years in a row are as follows:)

August 1, 2009 – Tammuz 29

July 22, 2008 – Av 1

July 11, 2010 – Tammuz 29

As if these three eclipses were not enough to get our attention, the Lord seems to have pointed His watching and waiting bride to Tammuz 29 and Av 1 AGAIN by showing us two more signs in the solar eclipses that happened this year on June 1, 2011 and July 1, 2011.  God seems to be saying,  “Look at this pattern: June 1, 2011 – solar eclipse,  July 1, 2011 – solar eclipse, what is the next logical date in this pattern?”

The answer is August 1, 2011, which again falls on the eve of Tammuz 29 and Av 1. There seems to be no doubt that the signs in the sky are pointing to these two dates which fall on July 31 – August 1 in the USA (if you are going by Jerusalem time, the watch is one day earlier due to the time difference.)

Av 1 is the beginning of the intensified stage of mourning and will last for nine days. (Nine is 3 x 3 and may represent completeness.)

Here is a little bit about the meaning of Av 1:

“When Av begins, we diminish [our] rejoicing” (Talmud, Taanit 26b).

“On the 1st of Av,  “The Three Weeks” mourning period over the destruction of the Holy Temple–which began 13 days earlier on Tammuz 17–enters an intensified stage. During “The Nine Days” from Av 1st to the Ninth of Av, a heightened degree of mourning is observed, including abstention from meat and wine, music, bathing for pleasure, and other joyous and enjoyable activities. (The particular mourning customs vary from community to community, so consult a competent Halachic authority for details).

Consumption of meat and wine is permitted on Shabbat, or at a Seudat Mitzvah (obligatory festive meal celebrating the fulfillment of a mitzvah) such as a Bris (circumcision), or a “Siyum” celebrating the completion of a course of Torah study (i.e., a complete Talmudic tractate). The Lubavitcher Rebbe initiated the custom of conducting or participating in a Siyum on each of the Nine Days (even if one does not avail oneself of the dispensation to eat meat).

Citing the verse (Isaiah 1:27) “Zion shall be redeemed with mishpat [Torah] and its returnees with Tzedakah,” the Rebbe urged that we increase in Torah study (particularly the study of the laws of the Holy Temple and charity during this period.

http://www.chabad.org/calendar/view/day.asp?tdate=8/1/2011

The Number Three and the Three Solar Eclipses

Below is some information on the number three in the Bible.

“Another of the numbers where we can readily see God use it in a spiritual sense to signify something, is the number three. It is used of God to signify His Purpose or His Will! For example, when God sent the three messengers to Abraham to tell him that Sarah would conceive in her old age (Genesis 18), by the use of the number three we see in this an illustration that they came with God’s “purpose and will” to Abraham. i.e., it was by the will of God and for His own purposes that Sarah should conceive so that God would make a great nation of Abraham through it.

The same illustration is seen as God brought a thick darkness upon the land of Egypt (exodus 10:22-23) for three days. In this, God’s purpose and sovereign will of judgment is worked out. The number three illustrated that it was for God’s purposes that they were in darkness while all the Children of Israel had light!

We can see this in the three times in a year God commanded that the men of Israel were to appear before the Lord in Jerusalem (Ex. 23:14,17 Deu. 16:16). This illustrated the will and purpose of God in the feasts Laws, which all pointed to Christ!

In 2nd Samuel 21:1 the Lord sends famine in the land for three years, and says it was because of Saul and his bloody house. In other words, it was God’s will that this happen, and the purpose of God in doing this was to bring judgment because of Saul’s bloody House.

Another example is in 1st kings 17:21 as Elijah stretches forth his body over a dead child three times, and the child lives again. This signified that it was God’s will and for His own purpose that the child should yet live again, a type or spiritual “shadow” of things to come.

Again, as the Lord said His servant Isaiah walked naked and barefoot three years as a Sign (signification) and a wonder upon Egypt (Isaiah 20:3), once more indicating God’s will and purpose for Egypt.

Even when we look at the three men who were cast into the furnace of fire, and a fourth who was there like the Son of God (Daniel 3:24-25), we see that it was God’s will and purpose that these three men would not be harmed by the fire because of the presence of the Son of God. This was demonstrating that by the presence of Christ, the will and purpose of God that His people not be harmed in the fire, will be accomplished.

These are just a few of the examples, and we could go on and on about this. These places where the number three is found is numerical symbology which is putting forth spiritual truths, that we can learn from as we consider them. For in three, God works out His purpose and His will. As Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights, so it indicated it was for God’s purpose, and that His will would be worked out in this (Again, a type of Christ).

If I could use an earthly analogy of a Biblical principle, It’s somewhat like asking someone three times whether they really want to sell their house for a certain fee. After they say yes the third time, it’s established that this is their will and purpose or intention. That, of course, is a bad analogy, but one which makes the point. That is the way the number three is often used in scripture. It signifies the establishment of God’s will and His purpose. The three days and three nights Jonah spent in the fish established that God’s purpose and will would be worked out in that. In Acts, the Lord smote the Apostle Paul with blindness for three days:

    Acts 9:9

  • “And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.”

Was the fact that he was blind “three” days just a number picked out of a hat, as if any number would do? No, the number was God breathed. He was Blinded three days not by coincidence, but “by divine fiat or decree”. It was God’s purpose for him to be blind and to neither eat nor drink for those “three” days because He was bringing Paul to the light! Why not four days? Why not two days? Because those are numbers God uses to signify other things, and He wanted to indicate by the number “three” that it was for His own good purpose and by His sovereign Will that Paul be blind. And that is what the number three signifies.

The exact same principle in Acts Chapter 10, when a voice from heaven told Peter to rise kill and eat the beasts of the earth that were on a sheet descending from heaven. And Peter says No, for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean. Then the voice says, “what God has cleansed, don’t call it common”. And we read,

Acts 10:16

  • “This was done thrice (3 times): and the vessel was received up again into heaven.”

Why was this done “three” times, and then the sheet received up again into heaven? When we study scripture in context, we find that these passages were to indicate that the gospel was going out to the Gentiles as well as the Jews. And that is why it is meticulously pointed out by God that this was done three times and “then” received up again unto heaven. It is to signify this is the purpose and will of God that Salvation go to all the world. It’s not just any number, it’s the number that signifies God’s purpose and will that Salvation go to the Gentiles as well as the Jews. The “three” times it’s done, gives us this spiritual signification that it is established by God for His purpose.

Christ spoke a parable which was about a fig tree in a vineyard in Luke 13:6 (Symbolizing Israel) and the man of the vineyard came “three” years seeking fruit and found none, and so said cut it down, why cumbereth it the ground. Why didn’t God in this parable say cut it down after one year, or after two years? It was because the “three” years he came seeking fruit is symbolizing the purpose of God. He gave it “three” chances before he said cut it down. (Remember the analogy I made of three times asked makes it established?) The establishment of God’s purpose and will is seen in this number three.

One of the greatest places to see this numerical symbology is in that there is only one God, and yet there are three in the Godhead. The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.

1st John 5:7

  • “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one”.

The purpose or will of God the one God, is worked out in these three. Read the Bible with wisdom and understanding. Because these things were put there for just that purpose. The purpose and will of God is worked out in the three of the Godhead.

When Paul sought God to remove the thorn in the flesh, but it was for God’s own purpose that Paul retain this thorn (it wasn’t God’s will to remove it) He illustrates this by the number three. Consider what we read in,

2nd Corinthians 12:8:

  • “For this thing I besought the Lord thrice (three times) that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My Grace is sufficient for thee..”

Here we see it again “three” times Paul besought the Lord! Why not once, or twice? Why didn’t God tell him after the first time or the second? Why did God wait for the third time? It’s because God deliberately wants to indicate in scripture by this number 3, that it is not His purpose, or His Will that this thorn be removed. He says to Paul after being asked the third time, “My Grace is sufficient for you.” In other words, My Grace is enough for you. i.e., After the third time asking, it was established as God’s will that this was not to be removed. Grace was enough for Paul. So again we see clearly that the number three here was an indication to us that it was not God’s will that this be removed.

There are just so many indications of the number three being used to symbolize the will and Purpose of God. None more “God Glorifying” than the atonement that the Lord made at the cross. The Atonement has the number “three” all around it and we can readily understand why. That’s because though Christ was Crucified, it was God’s will and for His purpose that Christ went to the Cross. For example, Jesus sat with the elders in the Temple three days being about His father’s work, there were three Crosses, there were three men crucified, there was writing in three different languages on the cross, Jesus prayed three times that if it was possible could this cup pass from me, three Apostles went into the garden to pray with Him, Peter denied Our lord three times, Pilate sought three times to let Jesus go, it was the “third” hour when they crucified Him, Jesus was in the heart of the earth “three” days and “three” nights, When Jesus was risen He asked Simon three times loveth thou Me, and on, and on. The number three is everywhere indicated in the atonement that Christ made for us because it was God’s will and purpose. Are these all just coincidental references? The scoffers will tell you that, but the Spirit tells another story. Christ had to go to the cross in order for us to be Saved. It is a Gift of God. It was His will. The number three being used this way is a coincidence like the sheep being used as an indication of a believer is a coincidence. No Possible Way! They were both put there by God to give us a great Spiritual, or symbolical picture that we can learn from. Unfortunately, there are many in our day who choose to remain spiritually ignorant in these things.

It’s not curious then that the number three is sometimes used in conjunction with the number two (which signifies the agreement of truth) when making statements about God’s purpose. Because His will and purpose go hand in hand with the truth. For example, in relationship to the Church. For the Church is the pillar of truth, and it is also doing God’s Will, and working to accomplish His purposes. Jesus says in:

Matthew 18:19-20

  • “Again I say unto you, that if two of you shall agree on earth as touching anything that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of My Father which is in heaven.
  • For where two or three are gathered in My name, there Am I in the midst of them.”

There we have the establishment of the truth (2), and the Purpose of God (3) in the definition of the Church. Where two or three are gathered in Christ’s name, there is the truth and the will of God being done, and Christ in their midst. That’s the two or three witnesses of God. That’s the Church with Christ in the midst (remember the two witnesses of revelation chapter 11?) There is the “definition” of the Church! Two or three witnesses gathered together in the name of Christ! The two is illustrating established truth, and the three illustrating the purpose and will of God.”

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/bible/numbers.html

 I am not sure what will happen in the next few days, but as watchers, I hope we are in for a wild and joyous ride!

High Watch Days for 2011:  July 29, 30, 31, August 1.

“My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning: I say, more than they that watch for the morning.”  (Ps. 130:6)

Even so, Come, Lord Jesus!

CF

Nando

Lauren (28 July 2011) “AN ANALYTICAL TRUTH EXPOSING THE ELENIN/NIBIRU CONTROVERSY”

The article below has a link to a scientific study of Nibiru and Elenin.

It is the best study I have read so far and the information given in the study is mind boggling. in page 28 of 92 there is a concise description of the two celestial objects. I have only read to page 28 at the time of this post.

Nando

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/60725711

Lauren (28 July 2011)
“AN ANALYTICAL TRUTH EXPOSING THE ELENIN/NIBIRU CONTROVERSY”

Hello John and fellow doves,

This is a little lengthy, but well worth the read time. I hope this makes you and the ‘truth seekers’ who come to your site and whomever they may forward it to, become a day in which ‘truth’ comes to light! Thanks Lauren

When you open this link http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/60725711 disregard the link at the top of the first page, because it is ‘off center’ too far right to be hyperlinked.

Scroll down a blank page or so, read the somewhat boring ‘Foreward’ scroll down to a interesting ‘Summary’, THEN READ AND VIEW this most definitive, scientific and mathematical study on Elenin and Nibiru that you will have gotten your hands/eyes on so far.

What many have been so confused about, is explained with orbits and photos, along with an analysis that is accurately detailed.
FYI: The biggest factor of confusion is that Nibiru/Planet ‘X’ is 8AU or 744 million miles behind Elenin.

Don’t be afraid to read every word! A Ezekiel 33:6 watching one

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/july2011/lauren728.htm

Nando

Written by twelvebooks

July 28, 2011 at 5:55 pm

July 27, 2011 Obama in his own words implies he is the Antichrist

The following article gives a link at the end to  site that you will see the picture of Obama. If you click on the picture it takes you to the first video about Obama revealing who he is. At the end you will see the link to the other video.

If at this point in time you doubt that Obama is the Antichrist then the videos are a must.

Nando

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/july2011/gerlinda727-2.htm

Gerlinda (27 July 2011)
“Obama: “Laugh now, Cry Later” in Satanism hip hop encore”


Dear John,
 
Here is one I had forgotten about for a while but upon looking at it again, in these days and times, it tells us just about everything about this man, Obama.   click onto the clip after entering this link.  Gerlinda
 
“Satanism in hip hop encored/ laugh now, cry later Obama’s admission”

Nando

July 26, 2011 graph of the lunar tetrads sinc Jesus time

This graph by Luis Vega shows all the lunar eclipse tetrads since the time of Christ to the present and it also shows a timeline for the seven years of the Tribulations . Very good Luis!, thank you.

Nando

http://i55.tinypic.com/9geqfc.png

Nando

July 25, 2011 Rapture at the end of the month of July 2011?

I have enjoyed reading this article by Eliane B. which is probably the correct view of the plan for the church of Christ.

If this view is correct the first Rapture occurs before the seven year Tribulation starts and it could be on Pentecost of this year which is at the end of this month as the article states. The second Rapture if it happens before the seventh trumpet of Revelation must be at the end of the 1,260 days when the two witnesses are killed and are resurrected three days after.

At this point we must consider the remaining humans left on earth and see how they will be seen by Jesus. In Revelation 20:4 listed below we see another resurrection and this happens after Satan, the Antichrist and the False Prophet are dealt with so the seven years are over. Is this the third resurrection? A few verses after it states that this is the first resurrection.

http://niv.scripturetext.com/revelation/20-1.htm

4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

We also must deal with the sheep and the goats listed on Matthew 25:31 to the end. Obviously the sheep did not follow the Antichrist, but are they believers in Christ or are they being judged on their works exclusively as the text seems to imply?

It is a complicated subject and I want to thank all those involved in this interchange of ideas for making their thoughts available to others.

Nando

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/july2011/elianeb725-2.htm

Nando

Eliane B (25 July 2011)
Why I think the Judgment Seat of Christ can’t happen before the last Tribulation Saint arrives in Heaven


Dear Doves,

I believe that the Judgment Seat of Christ can only happen after the last saved person arrives in Heaven. So, in my opinion, that Judgment only takes place after the last Tribulation Saint arrives in Heaven, so that the entire Body of Christ is present in the Judgment Seat.

So even if one doesn’t believe that the Body of Christ is taken to Heaven (if not via death) by means of more than one Rapture (being the first one the Rapture of the ones who are ready at the time of the First Trump and the other one the Rapture of the surviving Tribulation Saints at the Last Trump), even if one prefers to believe that there is only one rapture, the Judgment Seat has to wait for the last Tribulation Saint alive on Earth to be translated to Heaven via death, which only happens many years after the First Rapture.

I think that 1 Thess 4:16-17 refers to the pretrib Rapture:

16 “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

Notice that the event being described above doesn’t mention the word “last trump”, but “Trump of God”.

1 Cor 15:51-52 refers to the last Rapture after the shortened Tribulation and just before the Wrath of God is poured on Earth.

51 “Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality”

Marilyn Agee said in one of her posts: “The first trump is blown with the left horn of the ram Abraham sacrificed instead of Isaac (Gen 22:13). The last trump is blown with the right horn of the ram. The Rabbis blow the FIRST TRUMP, the left horn, on PENTECOST, and the LAST TRUMP, the right horn, on the FEAST OF TRUMPETS. It is easy to tell that the LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE will be on Trumpets (Joel 2:1-2), so why wouldn’t the FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE come on Pentecost? “

I believe that the First Trump Rapture is on Pentecost (the correct date, whatever it is) and the Last Trump Rapture is on Rosh Hoshana / Feast of Trumpets / Yom Teruah. If I believed there was only one Rapture, the Feast of Trumpets would be the unquestionably the best candidate for the event.

The reasons I’m a proponent for Pentecost for the first and pretrib Rapture are:

– Pentecost has to do with the timing of the God espousing the Israelites at Sinai (when the Law was received by them)

– Pentecost is described I Scriptures as the First Trump

– Pentecost was the day the Church received the Holy Spirit and was “officially” baptized, althouth I think the Church was actually born when blood and water poured from the side of Jesus.

– Pentecost is the timing of the end of the barley AND wheat harvest (as described in Ruth 2:23) and this was the timing of the Kinsman Redeemer espousing her (a gentile bride, like the majority of the Church).

The reason the Feast of Trumpets is the best candidate for the last and pre-wrath Rapture are:

– Feast of Trumpets has to do with JUDGMENT

– Feast of Trumpets is Coronation day (Psalms 98:6)

– Feast of Trumpets is the Last Trump

– The last Trump is the last trumpet that sounds gathering the elect, the Tribulation Saints, “of those days” (Mt 24:29&31). This final rapture is described in 1 Cor 15:51-52.

– After this final rapture, death for the Body of Christ (now complete in Heaven, made up of the Bride and the Tribulation Saints) will be swallowed up forever in victory. The victory was already won at the cross, but will be enforced after the Last Trump Rapture.

1 Cor 15:53 can’t be referring to the pretrib Rapture because if it did, then no Tribulation Saint would be able to die after that Rapture, because the verse says that Death will be swallowed up in victory. So I believe that the entire Body of Christ must be united and complete in Heaven (which is possible only after the Last Tribulation saint arrives in Heaven either through death or through the Last Trump Rapture) for Death to be swallowed up in victory.

Again: Death is not swallowed up until the resurrection of the last believer! This is why I believe that 1 Cor 15 is not talking about the First Trump / Pretrib Rapture.

The scripture “But we shall ALL be changed” in 1 Cor 15 makes many serious Bible students infer that this verse proves that all believers are changed at the same time and therefore there must be only one rapture and one resurrection.  But what the verse says is: “we shall ALL be changed”, not “we shall all be changed at the same time”.

What I understand it is saying is that at that point in time when the last rapture occurs, ALL at that point shall have been changed. The overcoming bride had already been changed, given their resurrected bodies previously at the pretrib rapture (First Trump) and now the Tribulation Saints are being changed and receiving the resurrected bodies at the end of the shortened Tribulation. Together, they make up the whole body of Christ who are ALL changed at this final rapture.

It’s important to understand that the First Resurrection in Rev. 20:6 is illustrated in 1 Cor 15:22.26, when we see a discussion of resurrection in which a sequence of different phases or ranks of the resurrection of believers is pointed out, in addition to a reference to when the unbelievers are resurrected.

1 Cor 15:22 says: For in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all (the Bride and the Tribulation Saints) be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order (from the Greek ‘tagma’, “a series or sucession”, “rank”): Christ, the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

(note 1: the verb “coming” above can be also translated as “appearing”, in Greek.)

(note 2: there is no punctuation in the originals in Greek or Hebrew. The commas or lack of commas were added or omitted by translators)

The first resurrection happens in three different stages of phases at three different times. A few, that were part of Jesus’s sheaf (omer), were resurrected and changed with Jesus in the year of the crucifixion (probably 32 A.D.) and were taken to Heaven in their new changed bodies on the Feast of Firstruits (the 16th of Nisan, the day after the Sabbath, when the firstfruits of the barley harvest were being lifted up and waved by the Priest).

The bride, another type of the firstfruits (now from the end of the barley and wheat harvest), is raptured and resurrected before the Tribulation, probably on the Feast of Pentecost, when the Priest lifted up and waved two loaves of bread to the Father at the end of the barley AND wheat harvest. We have reasons to believe that the correct date for Pentecost is the 29th of Tammuz, which in 2011 will fall on July 31st/August 1st.

And the Tribulation Saints, those that are His at His appearing, are raptured and resurrected at the conclusion of the shortened Tribulation, before the Seventh Seal is opened and the Wrath of God is poured on Earth.

The Feast of Trumpets seems to be the day of the resurrection / rapture of the Tribulation Saints (the last phase of the first resurrection which is separated by “tagmas”, “order”, “ranks”), which are typified by the Days of Lot (Lot and his family were removed from Sodom by angels, instants before fire and brimstone fell on Sodom and Gomorra). On that very same day, the 7th and last Seal will be opened and the Wrath of God is poured on Earth. There is Judgment on Earth (the Wrath of God) and Judgment in  Heaven (the Judgment Seat of Christ, which is not for condemnation of anyone, but for very important decisions regarding roles in the Kingdom, as well as rewards that Our Lord chooses to give). On that same day (Yom Teruah), Christ will be coronated King (probably the moment of half an hour of silence)  and the Wedding Supper of the Lamb will be served to all believers that are present in Heaven. These seem to be the events on Yom Teruah, Feast of Trumpets.

This interpretation reconciles the fact that Yom Teruah is a Feast that involves Judgment, Coronation, Wedding (in this case, the Wedding Feast, not the wedding itself) and also a huge event happening on Earth that will unleash a renovation of the planet (in its anniversary).

In my view, the Judgment Seat can’t happen before all saints are united in Heaven as the complete Body of Christ.

I also think that the Second Coming happens a few months after the Wrath of God is poured on Earth.

Love in Christ,

Eliane

Nando