The roles of husband and wife in marriage Jan 31, 2013

This article is the seventh of a series. It should not be read until the first six are read as they are in a sequential order of thought.

Nando

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2013/johnj131.htm

John M Johnson (31 Jan 2013)
“RE: Jezebel Spirit Part 7“

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This is the last part of this article. The first 6 parts can be found at the links below:

Part 1: http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2013/johnj15.htm

Part 2: http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2013/johnj114.htm

Part 3: http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2013/johnj119.htm

Part 4: http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2013/johnj122.htm

Part 5: http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2013/johnj125-1.htm

Part 6: http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2013/johnj128.htm

The original message to which I responded was written by Steve Coerper and can be found at the link below:

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/dec2012/stevec1214.htm

 

I kept the original title in my articles in order to keep a consistency as to why I was writing.

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If then we are all sons and there is neither male nor female what does that mean? Does it mean that in the husband/wife relationship that there is no longer a headship or guide?

 

If it were true that there being neither male nor female meant that the roles of male/female were eliminated than it would also hold true that our children would have their roles eliminated as well. Do not children also fall into the category of male and female? Thus children would be on equal footing with their parents and in essence would not have to obey…but rather would be part of all decision making with veto power.

 

God is not trying to lift one above another. The true meaning of headship would be one of helping the other person learn the ways of Jesus and helping them to walk in those truths. The true purpose of submission is taking to heart that God is the one who has established the roles and it is unto him that we do all things.

 

In 1 Cor 11:8-14 Paul makes a statement that is most true:

 

For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. 9 Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10 That is why a wife ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.  11 Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man nor man of woman; 12 for as woman was made from man, so man is now born of woman. And all things are from God. 13 Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a wife to pray to God with her head uncovered? ESV

 

First of all the head uncovered is a natural thing speaking to a spiritual truth, first the natural than the spiritual. Notice that verse 10 is saying that the symbol of authority is for the angel’s sake. The angels understand authority. Jesus himself was under authority, the authority of his father. Only the father himself is not under authority. Jesus is under the Father’s authority, man is under Jesus authority, woman is under man’s authority and children are under their parent’s authority.

 

This authority is not to dominate but to guide and care for the other. True authority learns to guide with wisdom and kindness. It may not always do what it is proper and true (because of human frailty) but it will recognize its mistakes and apologize. The authority from God will love those for whom they are responsible. This authority will lay down its life for others.

 

Laying down one’s life for others however does not mean that it gives to those for whom one is responsible all that they request. Rather, it means that it will bear under the frailties and weaknesses of the other in order to help them obtain their fullness in Jesus. We see this principle in Rom 15:1-4:

 

We who are strong have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let each of us please his neighbor for his good, to build him up. For Christ did not please himself, but as it is written, “The reproaches of those who reproached you fell on me.” ESV

 

Thus, the husband must bear with the weakness of the wife, this is part of laying down his life. This also seen in 1 Peter 1 Peter 3:7 where we read once again:

 

7 Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered. ESV

 

The husband is also to love his wife as Christ loves the church. This to does not mean that the husband is to give the wife all that she request anymore than Jesus gives us all that we request. Rather it means he is to follow the constrains of 1 Corinthians 13:4-8

 

Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never ends. ESV

 

Thus, submission does not mean blind obedience, for if that were true the disciples would never have said in Acts 5:29,  “We ought to obey God rather than men”. Likewise, Daniel in Daniel 6 would not have disobeyed the king’s command not to pray if submission was merely blind obedience.

 

Submission is of the heart. It is not independent or seeking independence rather it is always seeking the will of the Father. Submission is meek and gentle always entreating. Remember Moses? He was the meekest of all men at his time (Num. 12:3) yet he was mighty before God and when Aaron and Miriam challenged his place God defended him.

 

God also defended Sarah when Abraham asked her to say she was his sister when they went into the land of Egypt and the scriptures say that Sarah was gentle and quiet in spirit.

1 Peter 3:4-6 – 4 but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God’s sight is very precious. 5 For this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, by submitting to their husbands, 6 as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. And you are her children, if you do good and do not fear anything that is frightening. ESV   

 

Submission, gentleness, meekness and quietness go hand in hand. This is what the Lord is asking of women and of the church both men and women (first the natural and than the spiritual). He is not asking them to do that which is evil or sinful but rather to entreat their husband with all meekness should something be asked of them that is not of God. The husband should never ask the wife to do anything that is sinful, evil or ungodly for that is not the way of Jesus and the Father. That is not love.

 

It was previously mentioned (in another post) about Acts 5 regarding Ananias and Sapphira who sold a piece of land. At the time others were doing the same and giving the sum to the local church. They determined among themselves to only give a part and yet say they had given all. They could have done this and been blessed of God if they were to tell the truth. However, they chose to lie saying they gave all when they kept a portion. Now, if Ananias had told Sapphira to lie, he would have been asking her to sin and do evil. She then was not obligated to tell such a lie and God would have defended her in the process.

 

What happened though is that the two agreed to lie as we see in Acts 5:8-10. This is the portion that comes after Peter had asked Ananias if it was the full price and now was asking Sapphira:

 

8 And Peter said to her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for so much.” And she said, “Yes, for so much.” 9 But Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” 10 Immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. ESV

 

What happened here was not because Sapphira submitted to the evil of her husband against her will but rather that she agreed with her husband to withhold a portion of the money and say that they were giving all the money. God knowing the hearts of all knew whether or not Sapphira was doing so out of submission in meekness or out of agreement in greed.

 

The way we act and live amongst those who do not believe is the testimony of the church. As a husband loves his wife so the world sees the love of Jesus for them for it is first the natural and than the spiritual. Also, when the wife is submissive and respectful towards her husband the world sees the church’s love and respect for Jesus for it is first the natural and than the spiritual. This is seen in Titus 2:4-5:

 

…teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. KJV

 

Also in Eph 5:29-33:

 

For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of his body. 31  “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. 33 However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. ESV

 

There should be no war of the sexes in the church of God. There should be no desire for independence from the woman or independence from the man in the church of God. There should be a respect for God’s desired roles for both male and female. There should be a longing to show forth the beauty of Jesus’ ways to all mankind through a fulfillment of those ways by the man fulfilling his role and the woman hers. In so doing the mystery of Christ and his Church will be revealed to all around and the word of God will not be blasphemed.

 

For as the man loves the woman and the woman honors the man a peace is created and a place of safety and strength for both. This is a spiritual truth that pertains most fully to Jesus and his church. If the church of God were to focus on Jesus and not ourselves we would see all that God has for us and we would not be anxious for anything but we would be at peace resting in his safety and strength.

What then is the church showing the world regarding Jesus love for the church and the churches love for Jesus? What is the church showing the next generation regarding Jesus love for the church and the churches love for Jesus? The way men and women interact in the church is manifesting the attitudes we have towards Jesus.

The scriptures tell us that if we cannot love those who are brethren whom we see than how can we love God whom we cannot see (1 John 4:20)? So, if we love him we keep his commandments and this is his commandment that we love one another. Are the men helping protect their wife and family from the ways of the world? Are the men guiding their families in the ways of the Lord? Are the women learning from the older women the things they need to know in order that the word of God is not blasphemed? Are the women seeking their husband’s and families welfare and not their own? These are only a few things that Jesus asks of us in order to present to the world the “mystery of Christ and His church”.

Are we willing?

John Johnson

Nando

“The Coming Slaughter of Christians” by Steve T (30 Jan 2013)

Thanks to Steve T who posted this link in http://www.fivedoves.com we have the video of this Irish Christian  Mr. Patrick Hiron who explains the parable of the ten virgins found in Mathew 25. The Coming Slaughter of Christians brings the point of the seriousness of the hour.

His exhortation for those on the fence of believe is valid and very critical to the times we live in.

This parable has always challenged me and you have my thoughts of it in the Category Ten Virgins Parable. Please go there for further discussion of this parable.

Nando

Steve T (30 Jan 2013)
“The Coming Slaughter of Christians“

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Hi John and Doves,

The Coming Slaughter of Christians

http://www.rapturewatch.net/apps/forums/topics/show/8584517-the-coming-slaughter-of-christians?page=last

22 Signs That Obama Is Turning America Into a Larger Version of North Korea! WOW!!!.;

http://www.rapturewatch.net/apps/videos/videos/show/17602472-22-signs-that-obama-is-turning-america-into-a-larger-version-of-north-korea-wow-

Rescind North Korea’s license to provoke;

http://www.rapturewatch.net/apps/forums/topics/show/8584130-rescind-north-korea-s-license-to-provoke?page=last

Interesting Articles

http://www.rapturewatch.net/featuredposts.htm

Thank you and Blessings,

Steve T

www.rapturewatch.net

Nando

The three judgments of Egypt an interview with Mr. Bill Salus Jan 27, 2013

Bob Ulrich interviews Bill Salus on his book Psalm 83 with emphases on Egypt. I ordered the book and DVD’s already.

Nando

Nando

Steve Quayle is interviewed. Jan 26, 2013

Nando

Steve Quayle is interviewed.

Nando

http://blogtalk.vo.llnwd.net/o23/show/4/213/show_4213519.mp3

Nando

Steven K
TOP POSTS & The Hagmann & Hagmann Report: Genetic Armageddon has arrived: Author Steve Quayle

Aliens are fallen angels an interview with Tom Horn and Steve Quayle Jan 26, 2013

I just finished hearing this radio talk show and I am posting it here for you to hear also.

This is a must hear show that will open your eyes to what is here now and what is coming. Thanks Mercer.

Some of the subjects discussed at the end of the interview I saw in the movie the Bourne Legacy that I saw last night, so Hollywood is already pushing it avant garde!

Nando

Mercer (24 Jan 2013)
“Tom Horn & Steve Quayle talk about Alien deception and News article: Russia Orders Obama: Tell World About Aliens, Or We Will“

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http://www.blogtalkradio.com/cfp-radio/2013/01/14/tom-horn-steve-quayle-on-the-hagmann-hagmann-report#.UQB8WmvQeFs.gmail

Russia Orders Obama: Tell World About Aliens, Or We Will

Russia Orders Obama: Tell World About Aliens, Or We Will A stunning Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) report on Prime Minister Medvedev’s agenda at the World Economic Forum (WEF) this week states that Russia will warn President Obama that the “time has come” for the world to know the truth about aliens.

Mercer

Nando

Is Obama god or the Antichrist? you will have to make the decision soon! Jan 24, 2013

Thanks to BG Ellis for this link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmG7cMWc9A8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Prophecies concerning present day Egypt Jan 24, 2013

There are several prophecies that involve Egypt for the end times and in the video below Mr. Bill Salus covers some of the aspects  of these prophecies and analyses the current geopolitical aspects of the nations around Israel and their prophetic destiny with destruction.

If you are reading this before it happens and you live in one of these nations it would do well to take them seriously.

It is awe inspiring to see the Word of God come alive in fulfilled prophecy.

Nando

Nando

The Soon Coming Wars Against Israel Jan 23, 2013

This blog is dedicated to the prophecies of the Bible and to the sounding of the alarm of the soon to come seven year Apocalypse. It is important to understand the prophecies in the Bible concerning these times and the various roles that the Nations of the world will be playing during those 7 years to understand how close we are to their fulfillment.

The key to the understanding of God’s plan is to understand the role that the chosen nation of Israel will play in these years of Apocalypse. This small Nation of Israel will be the vortex of a whirlwind of events that will bring destruction and judgment to all the Nations of the world. The fate of all the Nations will depend on the position that they take in this struggle of the Nations to thwart God’s plan to establish His Kingdom here on earth and rule from Jerusalem.

Several wars are predicted to take place preceding and during the Apocalypse. Two major ones are listed in Psalm 83 and another on Ezekiel 38-39.

The article below by Amy Van Gerpen links a video by pastor JD Faraq of His Sunday prophecy update and she comments on the identity of the Hagarites being the Saudis and not the Egyptians. From the political and religious fervent that is taking place at this moment on Egypt and the stand that president Morci took against Israel I suspect greatly that pastor Faraq is correct in his identification of these people as Egyptians. It is also possible that Saudis are also the descendants.

Pastor Faraq has done an excellent job of explaining the difference between these two prophecies and his geographical charts are very illustrative and comprehensive of the geopolitical and military situation in the ground at the present time.

His observation that these prophecies are time sensitive is also very good, you can see the conflict that is taking place at this time in Syria and in Egypt as well as the recent conflict with Hamas in Gaza.

Psalm 83 can become reality at any time in the very near future, and in Israel the position of the prime minister Netanyahu has been weakened by the latest elections. This could be erroneously seen as a point of weakness in Israel by their enemies.

Nando

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2013/amyv122.htm

Amy VanGerpen (22 Jan 2013)
“Mid-East Update – January 20th, 2013 – Pastor JD Farag“

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Pastor JD does an in-depth study of the prophecy in Psalm 83, and why it may now be on the cusp of being fulfilled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MMangcYnv4&list=UUkz3m787ygph7Uvjxzngl-g&index=2

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There is one item from the video I’d like to comment on:

Who are they? Well, again, these are the descendants of Hagar. Well, now, wait a minute: what’s the difference between the Hagarites and the Ishmaelites? Well, now think it through: Hagar went on to have more children after Ishmael, right? So because they came from Hagar does not make them Ishmaelites, because they … were not descendants of Ishmael.So what does that all mean? Well, these are, again, Egyptians. These are Egyptians.

I emailed Pastor Farag several months ago about pegging the Hagarites as Egypt, and the reasons I disagree with this. He never responded. Since then, I haven’t heard him include Egypt in the Psalm 83 group again until this week. It looks like he is trying to “reason” Egypt into the group. He has made a huge assumption that Hagar had more children. Even if they did, how do we know the father of these assumed children was from Egypt? Here is my argument against including Egypt in Psalm 83:

“Fair Use for Education and Discussion Purposes”

Ishmaelites and Hagrites:

The Ishmaelites, as a people, migrated to the area of eastern Jordan and into Saudi Arabia:

Genesis 25:17-18 – These were the years of the life of Ishmael: one hundred and thirty-seven years; and he breathed his last and died, and was gathered to his people. (They dwelt from Havilah as far as Shur, which is east of Egypt as you go toward Assyria.) He died in the presence of all his brethren.

The Ishmaelites disappeared from history after the time of David’s reign. Most assume that they absorbed into the surrounding people, and represent many of the Arabs that live in Israel’s neighboring countries.

The Hagrites were Ishmaelites who took the matron name:

In Gen 25:12-18 are recorded the descendants, “generations,” of Ishmael, “whom Hagar the Egyptian Sarah’s handmaid, bare unto Abraham.” Two, and possibly three, of these tribes, Jetur, Naphish and Kedemah (25:15), appear to be identical with the 3 tribes whom the Reubenites and the other Israelite tribes East of the Jordan conquered and dispossessed (1 Ch 5). The correspondence of names in Gen and 1 Ch leaves little doubt that “Hagrite” is a generic term roughly synonymous with “Ishmaelite,” designating the irregular and shifting line of desert tribes stretching along the East and South of Israel. Those “East of Gilead,” “Jetur, Naphish and Nodah,” were overcome by Reuben: “The Hagrites were delivered into their hand, and all that were with them. …. And they took away their cattle …. they dwelt in their stead until the captivity” (1 Ch 5:20-22).http://www.bible-history.com/isbe/H/HAGRITES/

The Bible shows us that the Hagrites migrated east of Israel and lived in eastern Jordan (Gilead was in northwest Jordan):

1 Chronicles 5:10 – Now in the days of Saul they made war with the Hagrites, who fell by their hand; and they dwelt in their tents throughout the entire area east of Gilead.

Some believe that the Hagrites in Psalm 83 represent Egypt because Hagar was originally from Egypt. From the sources I could find, most believe that the Hagrites settled in Jordan and Arabia. The Bible supports this, as the passage above tells us the Hagrites migrated east of Israel:

I believe it is a stretch to say that the largely unknown Hagrites represent Egypt, as Egypt is otherwise a very prominent country throughout the Bible. Let me explain it in a different way:

Hagar had Ishmael through Abraham, and Sarah had Isaac through Abraham. For arguments sake, let’s call the people of the future country of Israel the “Sarities.” Sarah was a Syrian. Using the same argument about the Hagrites representing the Egyptians, we could argue that the “Sarities” would represent Syria in the future. Obviously, that just isn’t the case. We understand that a new nation formed through the line of Sarah and Isaac. After the captivity in Egypt, these people settled in the land of Canaan and became Israel. All the future prophecies about Israel are about Israel (“Sarites”), not Syria.

The point here is that we need to look at where the Hagrites migrated and settled, not where they originated from. Both the Bible and history confirm that the Hagrites settled east of Israel.

http://www.trackingbibleprophecy.org/middle_east_war.php

Maranatha!
Amy Van Gerpen

Nando

The following video is about the same subject as the above by Prophecy in the News.

 

Bill OReilly on Americas economic collapse a commentary Jan 21, 2013

Many of you readers have heard of the four horsemen of the Apocalypse but I am sure that most of you will not know what they are and what they will do. This link to a short video of Bill O’Reilly the reporter of Fox News tells the people who will listen that the American economy is in a path of economic collapse.

What Bill is covering here will be the effects of the opening of the third seal of the Book of Revelation the black horse. This horse brings the economic collapse of the whole world economy.

The question that is paramount to ask is why is Obama pursuing this road of economic collapse. The answer lies in that he is the rider of the white horse that goes out to conquer the world when the first seal is opened. He is what the Bible calls the Antichrist that will rule the world during the 7 years of Apocalypse.

Thanks to BG Ellis who gave us this very good link.

Nando

BG Ellis
(VIDEO) America : Bill O’Reilly says the U.S. Dollar will Collapse / Disaster could be coming (Jan 18, 2013)

Nando

Thanks to several people in http://www.fivedoves.com we have the following link that shows Obama and the SEcond Coming written below in the online magazine Newsweek.

Mary Anna
Obama is ‘The Second Coming’ – Newsweek

KS Rajan
(URL) Newsweek Now Says That Obama Is ‘The Second Coming’

Randy
Newsweek Magazine is at it AGAIN, re: Obama Cover Photo/Caption…….”The 2nd Coming”  ….unbelievable!

Mike C
Newsweek: Obama is ‘The Second Coming’

The Resurrection of Jesus and the Rapture of the Church, two related events Jan 18, 2013

It is one of the most important doctrines of the Christian faith to believe in the Resurrection of Jesus after His death at the cross.

Pastor John MacArthur of Grace to You Church gives us a detail description of the veracity of proof that there is concerning the Resurrection accounts in the Gospels. The Resurrection of Jesus is a forerunner of the Rapture and the resurrection of the dead in Christ at the time of the Rapture. Thanks to Steve T of Rapture Watch.

Nando

Witnessing Women and Doubting Disciples (Luke 24:1-12) John MacArthur

http://www.rapturewatch.net/apps/videos/videos/show/17550519-witnessing-women-and-doubting-disciples-luke-24-1-12-john-macarthur

Nando