Daniel Matson (18 Aug 2010) “Signs of the End – Quotes from Chapters 4 & 5”

These are the new available chapters.

Thanks for the post Daniel.

Nando

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/aug2010/danielm818.htm

Daniel Matson (18 Aug 2010)
“Signs of the End – Quotes from Chapters 4 & 5”

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Signs of the End – Quotes from Chapters 4 & 5 are now posted

More select passages from the book are now on the website with more to follow shortly. Below are the links to all of the posted chapters to date: Chapter 1 Chapter 3 Chapter 4 Chapter 5 By His Grace, Daniel Matson

Aug 18, 2010 “Does Ezekiel 38 describe a simultaneous attack on Israel and the United States”

Kurt S. has made a very good point in the article he sent to http://www.fivedoves.com about the USA and Israel being the countries referred as being attacked by Gog and the Persians in Ezekiel 38.

I agree with his analysis as a very possible and probable interpretation of this prophesy.

If we have the rider of the white horse in the white house it stands to logic also that the red horse rider will wage war against the rider of the white horse of Revelation.

Your reasoning is sound and your conclusions are very probable.

Yours in Jesus Christ

Nando

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/aug2010/kurts818.htm

Kurt S (18 Aug 2010)
“Does Ezekiel 38  describe a simultaneous  attack on Israel and the United States”

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Does Ezekiel 38  describe a simultaneous  attack on Israel and the United States of America?

Ezekiel 38:4

“I will turn you about and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you out, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them  splendidly attired, a great company with buckler and shield, all of them wielding swords;

Ezekiel 38:8-13

“After many days you will be summoned; in the latter years you will come into the land that is restored from the sword, whose inhabitants have been gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel which had been a continual waste; but its people were brought out from the nations, and they are living securely, all of them. You will go up, you will come like a storm; you will be like a cloud covering the land, you and all your troops, and many peoples with you. ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “It will come about on that day, that thoughts will come into your mind and you will devise an evil plan, and you will say,

I will go up against the land of unwalled villages.

I will go against those who are at rest,

that live securely,

all of them living without walls and having no bars or gates,

to capture spoil and to seize plunder,

to turn your hand against the waste places which are now inhabited,

and against the people who are gathered from the nations,

who have acquired cattle and goods,

who live at the center of the world.

Sheba and Dedan and the merchants of Tarshish with all its  villages will say to you, ‘Have you come to capture spoil? Have you assembled your company to seize plunder, to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to capture great spoil?”

In Ezekiel 38:4 it says that the Lord will  put  HOOKS into the jaws of the invading force, that means they will be compelled to attack even thought they don’t want to. The invaders will have analyzed an attack and will have decided it is not in their best interest to attack  and  turn away from the plan. They will have turned back from an attack when God forces them to turn around and attack (probably due to circumstances in the world at that time) because God wants to show the world  that :

A) “I will magnify Myself, sanctify Myself, and make Myself known in the sight of many nations; and they will know that I am the LORD.”‘ (Ezek 38:23)  and

B)“so the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward”(Ezekiel 39:22).

The attack is not motivated by hate toward Israel, it is motivated by the desire for “spoil” (Ezek 38:13), not that hatred of Israel is not involved, but economic circumstances will be the motivating force.

According to Wikipedia the Jewish population in the USA is  6,500,000  compared to about 5,600,000 in Israel. No other country has more than 500,000. There are an estimated 13-14 million Jews worldwide. The United States is more Jewish by population than Israel.

And there are theories that the European immigrant population of the USA are made up of the descendents of Ephraim and/or Manasseh (Sons of Joseph) which would account for the spiritual bond between Israel and the USA and for the benevolence that the USA has always had toward its Jewish citizens. No other country in the history of the world has welcomed Jews as has the USA. No other country in the history of the world has supported Israel financially like the USA has and in no other country of the world have the Jewish people prospered as they have in the USA. The United States has been a good brother to Israel.

In looking at some of key phrases that I have underlined, some of them just don’t seem to apply to Israel… for one thing Israel is too small to have all of the “spoils” that would attract the attack.

1. you will come into the land that is restored from the sword

The USA has been restored from a civil war in the 1860’s. Israel was restored by war (World War I and World War II), but not from war.

1. its people were brought out from the nations,

There are only two nations that are populated primarily  with immigrants from other nations; Israel and the United States.

1. living securely, all of them

Only in the United States do all the people live securely, or at least think they are secure. The population of Israel is constantly on the alert for attack and whatever security that Israel has is due to the influence of the USA in world affairs.

1. land of unwalled villages.

This could apply to a lot of nations right now, but the United States is certainly a land of unwalled villages as is Israel.

1. who are at rest, that live securely,

this applies to the United States, Israel is not at rest, it is and has been constantly under the threat of attack

6.      capture spoil and to seize plunder,

How much spoil and plunder can there be in Israel (it is  too small) compared to the United States.

1. waste places which are now inhabited

at the time this prophecy was written the United States was not inhabited, but Israel has been inhabited for the last three thousand years, maybe not at the same level as now, but some group has always been there.

1. against the people who are gathered from the nations

again there are only two nations whose population is made of immigrants, Israel and the USA. This verse does not say who those people are, it does not specify Jews   or descendents of Israel.

1. who have acquired cattle and goods

How much in the way of cattle and goods does Israel have for an invading force that probably includes Russia and Iran? Compared to the cattle and goods that are in the United  States? The United States is the 4^th largest cattle producer behind Brazil, India and China. Israel is not in the top 10.

1. who live at the center of the world.

Right now the political, financial and military  power center of the world is the United States, not Israel, although Israel is certainly in the center of world affairs.

The Living Bible translates this verse  (Ezek 38:12) as follows:

“I will capture vast amounts of plunder and take many slaves, for the people are rich with cattle now, and they think the whole world revolves around them!” (and which nation do you think that is describing?)

11. carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to capture great spoil?

Israel is too small to have great spoil. The United States is the 4^th largest cattle Israel is not in the top 10. The people of the United States are now buying silver and gold because the devaluing of the Dollar. There will be plenty of gold and silver that Americans will exchange for their lives.

The United States has a lot of farm produce…. The news just came out the Russian wheat harvest is going to be poor in 2010,  while the USA wheat harvest is expected to be very good.

I believe in Ezekiel 38:8-13 that Israel is synonymous with the USA and that there is a simultaneous attack on Israel and the USA. All of the plunder and spoils will come from the USA. Israel will survive and be restored to God, recognizing that Jesus is Lord (Ezek 39:22), the USA will be destroyed. A judgment in part on the people of the USA  for  rejecting Jesus Christ as evidenced by their supporting the anti-Christ with their votes and putting him in office.

Kurt S